superball<3

By the way... I'd be curious to see how many of those that take issue with hybrid snakes would feel there is an ethical violation in breeding a German Shepard to a Husky? I'll admit, I originally saw ethical problems until I realized that my dog Milo (which is the result of the above mating) is nothing different.

Ok I don't know if this has been answered yet, but I'm gonna ask again if it was. If the superball is bred for a long enough time, will it eventually become its own specie of snake? seperate from either a ball python or a blood python? Or does that only count if it occurs in the wild without human interference?

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Originally Posted by snakedude56

Ok I don't know if this has been answered yet, but I'm gonna ask again if it was. If the superball is bred for a long enough time, will it eventually become its own specie of snake? seperate from either a ball python or a blood python? Or does that only count if it occurs in the wild without human interference?

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Thats a good question, furthermore how may generations have to pass before it would be its own species.

The person who made the first cross also made the decision for future herpers that they can't be sure of having a 100% ball python. Maybe that’s not important to you or I but it might be to someone someday and it’s just a matter of time before decedents of integrates show up as possible new morph ball pythons.

But I suppose you could say the same thing about the morphs, no one can be sure of having a 100% wild type ball. I want the morph genes but maybe someone will not want them.

I'm reading all these posts that say how amazing these animals are, and honestly I just don't see the allure. I've never really been a big fan of blood pythons though, so maybe that's why I don't like them. I've also never been a big fan of hybrids either. In fact I've cut way back on my corn snakes because I thought the hybridizers were mucking them up too much. I have seen a number of 'kingsnakes' coming into our herp society adoption program that looked like they had a lot of corn snake influance in them, an unsuspecting person might have their pure kingsnake project messed up by including some of these unusual looking snakes in their breeding program. I've even been burned by this myself. I once bought an 'unusual' looking pair of pine snakes. Lighter in color then other pine snakes. Once I raised them up and produced offspring, it was pretty obvious that they were actually pine snake X bullsnake hybrids. It was a lot of wasted time on my part.

Hybrids are a fact of life, you can't put the genie back in the bottle again but I still don't like them. There is still so much unrealized potential with the pure ball pythons, adding other species to the mix just confuses things.

Mark

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

[...] This is purely a guesstimate, but I would say some hybrids are a great deal more likely to occur in the wild than some of the morphs we've produced in captivity.

Not many, and not a super ball. Most of the hybrids created in captivity would never meet in the wild.

Is there a potential for problems if they are released into the wild? Sure... just like the problems with Burmese being released in Florida creating havoc on the alligator populations.

I'm talking more of buying animals that are sold as one species, when in reality they are hybrids. After a while, as with corns, even reputable breeders can't know for sure what blood a snake has.

The only thing you can do in regards to potentially "bad" bloodlines is purchasing from quality breeders. Could you imagine one of the major breeders bringing in a genetically tainted BP, and selling the offspring as Ball Pythons?

I can. Look at the Spider mutation. If Adam's correct, every spider and morph that has spider in it has a genetic neurological flaw.

I realize why some may be a little hesitant, and I don't even question the fact that eventually bloodlines are going to be mixed, and less than honest breeders will sell them as pure. The only thing you can do? Take caution in your suppliers.

Again, once hybridizing a species becomes common, you can't be 100% sure what you are getting, even if it's from a reliable source.

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

By the way... I'd be curious to see how many of those that take issue with hybrid snakes would feel there is an ethical violation in breeding a German Shepard to a Husky? I'll admit, I originally saw ethical problems until I realized that my dog Milo (which is the result of the above mating) is nothing different.

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Dogs have reliable pedegree information. If I want a 100% Husky, I can go buy one and be certain that it's 100% Husky. Reptiles breeders and buyers don't have this luxury. I wouldn't have a problem with creating hybrids in captivity, but it's been shown that some people are not responsible with them, and it only takes a few people to muck things up to the point of uncertainty from that point on. For example, when I was breeding corn snakes, I saw a cage full of candy cane corns for sale at a local pet shop. Had I not known better, I would have bought a female, bred it to my Amelanistic, and sold the offspring as Amels. The pet store didn't mention that they were rat/corn hybrids, so if I didn't know, my customers wouldn't have known, forever. Since this happens, there are now amels, snows, Anery A & B, etc., etc. that are emoryi crosses, and no one can be sure that any corn snake is not a cross. Was this the intention of the first producers of candy canes? I doubt it, but once one or two of them leave there facilities, it's history.

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

...This is purely a guesstimate, but I would say some hybrids are a great deal more likely to occur in the wild than some of the morphs we've produced in captivity...

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Also, you can't create a morph in captivity. The original morphs are found as wild caught animals. Once in captivity, we selective breed and mix and match, but every morph started in the wild in Africa.

To wach is his/her own. I am not saying its wrong, now would I do it? No. but crossbreeding and breeding things for certain traits has been done for centuries. Example, dogs and cats you thinkg there were naturally little rat dogs that have to be given little sweaters because they have no hair? No, they were bred that way for some god awful reason. im not nesessarily saying its right but you cant get upset at a snake breeder and then look over at your little hairless dog or your bulldog for that matter and not have an opinion. if i am a little off on my facts i apologize but my basic argument holds to be true, im just to tired to do the actual research right now. lol.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

Also, you can't create a morph in captivity. The original morphs are found as wild caught animals. Once in captivity, we selective breed and mix and match, but every morph started in the wild in Africa.

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Designer morphs (double recessives, dominant-recessive combos) are highly unlikely to be found in the wild. Supers are also somwhat unlikely to be found.