They save them...

I think the issue is that by someone 'saving' a feeder animal is that they may be unintentionally showing their disapproval of the keeping of snakes. To me it almost seems like the act of saving a feeder is like saying "You should not be able to feed your snake rats"....or "You are a horrible person for feeding rodents to your snake".

The "Save a rat....starve a snake" attitude is a bit hypocritical to me. Why is one life more important than the other? Why is she not saving crickets, mealworms and feeder goldfish? What makes the rats more important?

I would have loved to be in the situation to talk to this woman. Does she understand that all animals must eat? What was her motives for 'saving'? Can she offer alternatives to feed snakes? I could go on and on with questions I would have liked to asked her.

You have to understand the reason that people base their opinions on and understand why they are doing something. There is a big difference between someone who is ignorantly saving feeders from death for their own selfish reasons (i.e. to make themselves feel significant in some way) or someone that actually has an reasonable educated reason for 'saving' a feeder(i.e. the pet store treats the rodents horribly).

Again it is hard to judge without hearing the persons' reasoning.......

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

I think the issue is that by someone 'saving' a feeder animal is that they may be unintentionally showing their disapproval of the keeping of snakes. To me it almost seems like the act of saving a feeder is like saying "You should not be able to feed your snake rats"....or "You are a horrible person for feeding rodents to your snake".

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I guess my point is, I know that there are people who will dissapprove of me keeping snakes and feeding rats and mice to them. I really don't lose much sleep over it, nor let it concern me. I'll do my thing, they'll do theirs. I'll be happy I'm providing for my snakes, they'll be happy that they've "saved" an animal destined to be a feeder. What's so wrong with that?

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I guess my point is, I know that there are people who will dissapprove of me keeping snakes and feeding rats and mice to them. I really don't lose much sleep over it, nor let it concern me. I'll do my thing, they'll do theirs. I'll be happy I'm providing for my snakes, they'll be happy that they've "saved" an animal destined to be a feeder. What's so wrong with that?

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What is wrong with it is that these same people will most likely support legislation to ban snakes as pets. They will vote for politicans that draft these measures or they will activetly help draft them.

Beliefs that arent based in reality dont hurt people directly, but the people who harbor them make decisions that affect us all based of those same wacky beleifs.

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

What is wrong with it is that these same people will most likely support legislation to ban snakes as pets. They will vote for politicans that draft these measures or they will activetly help draft them.

Beliefs that arent based in reality dont hurt people directly, but the people who harbor them make decisions that affect us all based of those same wacky beleifs.

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I can concede your point.

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

What is wrong with it is that these same people will most likely support legislation to ban snakes as pets. They will vote for politicans that draft these measures or they will activetly help draft them.

Beliefs that arent based in reality dont hurt people directly, but the people who harbor them make decisions that affect us all based of those same wacky beleifs.

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...and they'll break for lunch and eat a cow at Mickey Dee's, or a chicken at Kay Eff Cee, or even a fish at Long John's....

I kind of agree with EVERYONE here. If the lady feels she's making a difference by saving a few rats, that's cool. But if she stops for a burger on the way home, I hope a little spark lights up in her mind showing her the hypocracy of her actions!

addendum - I'm NOT saying eating beef, chicken, or fish is wrong!!! I ate burger for lunch yesterday, probably pork today, shrimp a couple days ago. And I fed both rats and mice to snakes on Sunday! ;)

Steve

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

What is wrong with it is that these same people will most likely support legislation to ban snakes as pets. They will vote for politicans that draft these measures or they will activetly help draft them.

Beliefs that arent based in reality dont hurt people directly, but the people who harbor them make decisions that affect us all based of those same wacky beleifs.

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So what does this mean? Does this mean we should be the "thought/motive police" to make sure everyone else's personal agendas line up with ours so that no one considers or supports a law that disagrees with our personal beliefs?

I mean...we already see this taking place in SO MANY aspects of our society....such as the 2nd grade choir that can't sing traditional Christmas carols because ONE kid in the class has parents that don't believe in God and decide they're offended.

WHO decides who is right in that situation and therefore determines which laws should be supported and which should be struck down?

The problem isn't (as I see it) with a single lady who dares to express aloud her choice to "save" rats from being eaten by someone else's pet snake.....the problem is with the people who feel so strongly about an issue and yet sit back and take no active steps to keep the freedoms they believe they should have. Instead, they fret and worry about what the "other side" might be inadvertantly accomplishing in the vacuum left by their own inaction.

And, let me just say, I'm NOT speaking to anyone in particular here....I know that most (if not all) of the folks here are at least moderately politically aware of our herp-keeping freedoms and willing to take action to protect them. BUT...some of us sound otherwise in these types of threads.

And one more thing that just popped into my head as I made the choice to participate in this discussion... ;) ....There are plenty of people in the world who utterly despise rats. They think every single rat on the planet is nothing but diseased vermin poised to wipe us all out with the plague they must be carrying. I wonder how this lady would feel if she ran into one of those on her way out of the store with her little rescued pet. :P There's a different side to every story. ;)

I think this important because of how serious and widespread exotic restrictions are becoming. I am assuming this woman is not just a rodent fan, but she may also anthropomorphisize snakes... perhaps thinking they are mean or cruel creatures for killing a smaller animal for food. People who do think like this really need to be educated, and should also accept the way certain animals are made. I applaud her for standing up for what she believes in and trying to make a difference for those rodents, but I will not support her actions if she is at the same time being completely ignorant about the animals that must consume those rodents to survive.

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Originally Posted by JLC

So what does this mean? Does this mean we should be the "thought/motive police" to make sure everyone else's personal agendas line up with ours so that no one considers or supports a law that disagrees with our personal beliefs?

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Depends what you mean by "thought" police. If you mean imprisonment for holding certain beliefs than I'm not for that at all. That's fascism, not freedom.

You are free to hold whatever beliefs, but if you make those wacky beleifs public and you take political actions that direct public policy then other people should freely criticize and question such beliefs. Furthermore, you shouldnt be able to hide behind your non-reality based claims just because they are of your "opinion", "culture", "religion" etc. For example, uniformed opinions should be challenged.

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

Depends what you mean by "thought" police. If you mean imprisonment for holding certain beliefs than I'm not for that at all. That's fascism, not freedom.

You are free to hold whatever beliefs, but if you make those wacky beleifs public and you take political actions that direct public policy then other people should freely criticize and question such beliefs. Furthermore, you shouldnt be able to hide behind your non-reality based claims just because they are of your "opinion", "culture", "religion" etc. For example, uniformed opinions should be challenged.

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:) I'm going to go on the assumption that you're using a universal "You" and not directly calling anything I've said so far a "non-reality based claim."

I'm all for directly challenging people on expressed beliefs or opinions or even supposedly stated "facts"...not challenging to say, "That's stupid and you're wrong"....but to say, "WHY do you believe/think/say that and can you answer these questions I may have...."

But what good does it to do get actively upset over an opinion one person expressed in passing one day? Can we confront HER and ask her why she thinks the rats need rescuing? No...not really. So the whole exercise here just seems to be excessive nail-biting over something that we have no control over and is truly an extremely minor event in the greater scheme of things.

(And to the original author of this thread, I don't believe that was your intent when you posted your story....the discussion just sort of meandered that way, as they tend to do. ;) )

Of course...this is stricly my opinion and personal point of view on the matter...subject to disagreement from anyone who reads it.

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Originally Posted by Rapture

I think this important because of how serious and widespread exotic restrictions are becoming. I am assuming this woman is not just a rodent fan, but she may also anthropomorphisize snakes... perhaps thinking they are mean or cruel creatures for killing a smaller animal for food. People who do think like this really need to be educated, and should also accept the way certain animals are made. I applaud her for standing up for what she believes in and trying to make a difference for those rodents, but I will not support her actions if she is at the same time being completely ignorant about the animals that must consume those rodents to survive.

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That is pretty much my outtake on it all. Good post.

I really do see it as anthromorphisizing in most cases...certain animals being depicted as 'villians' because of their natural behaviors is sickening. It also seems that the belief that people should not eat animals is being pushed upon the animals themselves. You see this with dogs and cats all the time. If a person is a vegaterian, why would they own an animal that eats other animals?

Like I said before, I would have really liked to talk to this woman to hear here reasoning. She was 'saving' rats that were well taken care from the POSSIBILITY of being used as a feeder. With all the abused pet rodents out there, why not save any of them instead? What other alternatives do we have to feed our snakes besides feeding rodents?

Besides "saving" an animal from a pet store is pointless anyways. The pet store makes money from your 'saving'......so what is to stop them from continuing with what they are doing? If I was running the shop, I would be like "Lets turn up production on the rats, that lady is back to save some more. Make sure you put the little cute ones up front so she might buy two or three"