Animal Rights or Animal Welfare?

Except all that poop he left on the carpet would be a drag... :P

IMO with rights come responsibility.. we don't trust animals with responsibility.. (they are animals after all!) so they do not have rights in the sense that a human does. Animal welfare is humans putting limits on what other humans can do to animals.. it is a good thing to prevent cruelty. Animals do not understand 'rights'.. we protect them because we think they are valuable and feel pain and they deserve to be protected from needless suffering.

Do I believe animal testing is needless suffering? No. Tests on animals have helped perfect many live saving drugs. A lab rat or mouse may not be a human, but our bodies react the same way to many things, so testing on them is very beneficial to both medical and veterinary science.

I believe that God created animals for our benefit. We are to respect them for what they are, but we were given the right to use them for our advantage.

This is my view. :)

I agree with a lot of what you say but I take issue with the fact that because a creature is unable to 'understand' rights they do not warrant them. Babies, incapacitated and mentally disabled people all have human rights without 'understanding' them.

I also vehemently disagree with you about animals being there for our benefit, on several levels but I'd better not go there :)

I chose both, but neither to any hardcore degree.

I feel that, by all means, *any* animal that humans choose to keep, be it as a "pet" or as a display in a zoo or whatever, should be properly cared for according to the animal's needs and comfort but NOT be made into little 4 (or how ever many) legged humans. Nor I do agree with these people (not y'all here, other people) who feel that if you can not "afford" a "pet"..according to *their* standards of what "afford" means, that you shouldn't be allowed to have pets. I think that is just wrong. Just because someone doesn't have the money for "pet insurance" or regular teeth cleaning and professional grooming (which I think is stupid anyway) or they don't have a fenced yard, doesn't mean they should not be allowed to adopt. However, on the other hand, I think that these people who "collect" should be black listed from adopting anywhere. There are tons of wonderful pet owners who, while not having a ton of money to spend on pink bows, nail polish and show rings, take great care of and love their pets as much as their human families. Then again, you have these rick people who treat their pets like they are some kind of disposable toy or just furry money makers.

As for the animal rights thing....I'm real weird about that. I can't stand PITA (I think they're all on way too many drugs) but I *do* think that animals should *not* be used as clothing or luggage, should not be destroyed for the sake of development and should *never* be hunted for sport.
I don't really have a problem with animals being used in labs, however, I would LOVE to see these labs breed animals for *that specific purpose* rather than buying animals from people who go around and steal other people's pets right out of their yards.

I think animal rights gets a bit too crazy sometimes, as does animal welfare, but I think if I had to weigh them both, I'd go for animal welfare before animal rights...just because most people don't know where to draw the line between realistic, rational and ridiculous.

I also agree with the biblical view of animals. I suppose if one does not believe in God and creation then it would be a moot point to them, but for me, it's not.
God put animals on this planet *for* man and to coexist *with* man, but not for man to rule over or enslave for our sick, twisted entertainment.
In the beginning, God *did not* give animals to man as *food*. That didn't come along until wayyyy after man was booted out of the garden of Eden...anyway, I'm rambling now...again. :D

I feel that animals are here for our company, enjoyment and pleasure just as much as flowers and sunsets are. ;)

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Originally Posted by Shadowspider

I don't really have a problem with animals being used in labs, however, I would LOVE to see these labs breed animals for *that specific purpose* rather than buying animals from people who go around and steal other people's pets right out of their yards.

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Lab Animals are animals breed for that specific purpose. The amount of labs in developed countries that would accept a pet for biological/biomedical research is virtually zero.

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

Lab Animals are animals breed for that specific purpose. The amount of labs in developed countries that would accept a pet for biological/biomedical research is virtually zero.

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Oh, you might be suprised. ;)
A "kennel" near here that supplies animals to several "undisclosed" labs in the US was just shut down not too long ago. They claimed *all* of their animals were bred there at the kennel, except that the undercover guy who got a job there went with the kennel owners on their outings to flea markets to buy pets and neighborhood searches for *specfic* animal breeds (mostly specfic dog breeds) that they could "aquire" for the labs' needs.

The labs have no clue (generally) where the animals come from, they're told what they want to hear.

Animal welfare for me. I love animals, don't get me wrong, but they aren't equal to humans. I wouldn't send an iguana to school and expect him to understand or gain any knowledge from it. :disbelief

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Originally Posted by Shadowspider

Oh, you might be suprised. ;)
The labs have no clue (generally) where the animals come from, they're told what they want to hear.

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When I worked in a lab we knew exactly we are mice and rats came from......T

There is a ton of oversight for animal research.

Could someone forge paperwork? Possibly but unlikely....and even if they did...they likely get caught eventually. University Labs, like the one I worked in, are under federal oversight which is very especially strict in regards to this aspect of animal husbandry.

The big name suppliers are the only ones a University would ever buy from......and these suppliers are not going to lie about their source of animals.

Most researchers want animals with a known and controlled genetic pedigrees and medical histories. That way they can eliminate extraneous variables.

What paper or news channel was this story on? If you can provide a link to the news story I'd appreciate it....you can share it here or pm it to me if you want.

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Originally Posted by Shadowspider

professional grooming (which I think is stupid anyway)

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Ok, sorry but being a professional groomer I have to say something. :)

Have you ever seen a shih tzu who has not been groomed in a year? I have seen mats so tight they have cut the circulation off of ears and tails.. dogs with the mats over their private areas so tight they can't properly relieve themselves anymore and dogs with crusties stuck so long to their eyes that there are infected sores underneath them.

Now.. a lot of that is pure neglect, but there are others who unknowingly wash their long haired dog without brushing first then let it air or towel dry which can also cause intense matting.. which can cause some of the issues I described above.

Then.. there is the person who decides to give their dog a home haircut.. usually with scissors. We NEVER use scissors to demat a dog.. why? Tight mats pull the skin up into itself.. and if you use scissors you will cut the skin. We have seen some butchered dogs who were home-groomed.

Ok I'm off my soapbox.. it's just that not grooming some dogs can be very unhealthy for them.. now if we're talking a labrador.. then, you're right.. grooming is a luxury. :)

Sorry Shelby, I didn't mean to offend you (or anyone else). I suppose I should have clairfied what I meant by that.

Grooming is, indeed important for our pets, not only so they look good, but also to help maintain their health.
What I (just in my own opinion) think is dumb is when people's pets are humanized at the dog (or cat) salon and come out with hair spray, polished claws and...my favorite....pink bows in the ears of male dogs.
Animal groomers are just as important as human hair stylists....not everyone knows how to (or has the time) to perm, cut or color their own hair and not everyone knows how to or has the time to properly groom their pets.

I apologize for making that a blanket statement...my bad.