can you breed siblings?

mark,

i think larger, reputable breeders like adam for example, would know if you could breed longer than 2 generations of siblings.

and once i actually buy balls to breed and grow them up for a few years... then i'll be ready to start. but research needs to start now :) cause i imagine there's soooo much to learn! :P

thanks for sharing your experience. :D

in light,
aleesha

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

i think larger, reputable breeders like adam for example, would know if you could breed longer than 2 generations of siblings.

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Actually, I don't ... but that's just because I've never tried. I try to diversify my bloodlines and outcross as much as possible just to be safe.

I enjoyed Marks post.

-adam

so adam, what is your knowledge and/or opinion on this?

(this is the link i'm using to get the genetics from http://www.ballpython.ca/what_get/recessive.html )

for example: if you buy two 100% het pieds - breed them and get 1 pied, 2 hets and a normal from the clutch... so then you would breed the pied back to either it's mom or dad (depending on whether it's a male or female) and you get 2 pieds and 2 hets.

so now you have 1 pied which has produced 2 pieds.

can you then breed back the youngest pieds (depending on sex of course) to their parent pied and start producing pieds?

(or pastels or whatever...)

or is this considered too much inbreeding?

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

so adam, what is your knowledge and/or opinion on this?

(this is the link i'm using to get the genetics from http://www.ballpython.ca/what_get/recessive.html )

for example: if you buy two 100% het pieds - breed them and get 1 pied, 2 hets and a normal from the clutch... so then you would breed the pied back to either it's mom or dad (depending on whether it's a male or female) and you get 2 pieds and 2 hets.

so now you have 1 pied which has produced 2 pieds.

can you then breed back the youngest pieds (depending on sex of course) to their parent pied and start producing pieds?

(or pastels or whatever...)

or is this considered too much inbreeding?

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You could certainly try it ... I think that Marks point was that with ball pythons, for many mutations, we haven't gotten that far yet ... the project you described is at least 8 years long ... by then, you should think about at least trading some of your offspring out to diversify your genetics ... it certainly couldn't hurt. ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

You could certainly try it ... I think that Marks point was that with ball pythons, for many mutations, we haven't gotten that far yet ... the project you described is at least 8 years long ... by then, you should think about at least trading some of your offspring out to diversify your genetics ... it certainly couldn't hurt. ;)

-adam

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that's about what i figured... and i also thought i would hopefully have some other breeders up here in canada that i can trade with to diversify. :carrot:

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I think that Marks point was that with ball pythons, for many mutations, we haven't gotten that far yet ... the project you described is at least 8 years long ..

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Exactly right Adam. For instance, I've got a pair of albinos that I held back from my first albino clutch and the female might be big enough to breed this year. They are siblings that were produced by breeding a pair of hets together, so they are pretty well outbred themselves. Should I breed them together this year? I know I'll be breeding the male to a number of females, but should I also breed him to his sister?

I really don't have anything else that I would want to breed her to. I've got a bunch of het males but I can't see producing a bunch of het albinos/possible het something else.... I could breed her to a pastel, and produce some pastels het albino, but I've seen the albino pastels and I wasn't that impressed. Frankly it's taken me over 5 years to get to this point, and I think what I'd really like to see is a nice entire clutch of albinos... Will I have trouble with breeding siblings together? My previous experience with other species of snakes tells me that I probably won't have any problems at all, though I'll probably catch flack for it...

Mark

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Exactly right Adam. For instance, I've got a pair of albinos that I held back from my first albino clutch and the female might be big enough to breed this year. They are siblings that were produced by breeding a pair of hets together, so they are pretty well outbred themselves. Should I breed them together this year? I know I'll be breeding the male to a number of females, but should I also breed him to his sister?

I really don't have anything else that I would want to breed her to. I've got a bunch of het males but I can't see producing a bunch of het albinos/possible het something else.... I could breed her to a pastel, and produce some pastels het albino, but I've seen the albino pastels and I wasn't that impressed. Frankly it's taken me over 5 years to get to this point, and I think what I'd really like to see is a nice entire clutch of albinos... Will I have trouble with breeding siblings together? My previous experience with other species of snakes tells me that I probably won't have any problems at all, though I'll probably catch flack for it...

Mark

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I agree 100%! Strong posts today Mark ... I don't know about anyone else, but personally I'd enjoy seeing more like those around here! ;)

And for whatever it's worth, given what you've described ... my vote would be for the albino x albino pairing as well, a clutch of all albinos is a very beautiful thing! ;)

http://www.8ballpythons.com/uploads/albinos1.jpg

Keep us posted on what you decide to do and how it goes! :D

-adam

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Exactly right Adam. For instance, I've got a pair of albinos that I held back from my first albino clutch and the female might be big enough to breed this year. They are siblings that were produced by breeding a pair of hets together, so they are pretty well outbred themselves. Should I breed them together this year? I know I'll be breeding the male to a number of females, but should I also breed him to his sister?

I really don't have anything else that I would want to breed her to. I've got a bunch of het males but I can't see producing a bunch of het albinos/possible het something else.... I could breed her to a pastel, and produce some pastels het albino, but I've seen the albino pastels and I wasn't that impressed. Frankly it's taken me over 5 years to get to this point, and I think what I'd really like to see is a nice entire clutch of albinos... Will I have trouble with breeding siblings together? My previous experience with other species of snakes tells me that I probably won't have any problems at all, though I'll probably catch flack for it...

Mark

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Go for it!! You will never know without trying. Not to metion (like Adam said ) We need more full albino pics!!

I see no problem with your plan to breed them. Your het's would have been the F1 generation and breeding them would recover your recessive trait in the F2, this is how most breeders get recessive genes recovered when working with reptiles.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

The reason breeders of any species don't breed albino x albino of different compatible lines has nothing to do with genetics.

-adam

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What is the reason then? Or is it just keeping the lines "clean"? (just having say one NERD line, one VPI line or something like that)