Did I miss something here?

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Originally Posted by bpkid

actually to tell you the truth, Wes has answered a few husbandry questions of mine ;)

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Because he thinks he is going to get a sale from you.

While there is NOTHING wrong with being a business and wanting to make money, I feel that JOE will cause problems.

Have you guys not seen his video? where he talks about how much money he has made?

bpkid...yes Wes can answer your questions, I don't doubt that. Wes has been at this for a long time. Joe, however, openly admits in his video that he has ony been into this since 2001.

Have you not seen the part where Joe openly admits "price your co-doms where ever you want, i'll be there to pricem right under ya"?

He mentions, at least 15 times, how he is an ex-CAR SALESMAN. you were sold. Customer service is great, no doubt about that. Noone is denying that.

Have you not read his threads where he puts threats towards people to put the "middle man" out of business?

Newsflash: Joe is a middle man. Wes has the snakes!

It doesn't matter a lick how much money they've brought in. Their reputation in the hobby is forever tainted by all this schmoozing and lowballing, in my humble opinion. I seriously would like to know the opinions of well-known breeders, on this whole thing.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

It doesn't matter a lick how much money they've brought in. Their reputation in the hobby is forever tainted by all this schmoozing and lowballing, in my humble opinion. I seriously would like to know the opinions of well-known breeders, on this whole thing.

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I do too...I think they make the wise decision to stay out of debates like this. I try to but some times i get fired up enough to make a post

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Originally Posted by bpkid

I found this comment VERY offensive. Not only do I love this hobby, I KNOW I am not going to make half of the money I put into the snakes and racks, and thermostats, etc.

I choose to buy from MKR next year because I have talked to Joe and he is a great guy and I KNOW MKR produces alot of quality animals. Whoever says their customer service sucks probably hasn't called them yet. I called, with no answer, but got a call back in a few seconds! I talked to Joe for an overall 3 hours AT LEAST about the hobby and the market, and at least an hour overall about payment plans and if they will have what I am interested in.

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A few years ago I weighed about 260 lbs. I used to get really offended when people would make comments about my weight. But the fact remained I was fat.

I find this to be true of most circumstances. That which is true tends to hit us the hardest, especially when it's entirely the individuals fault. Nobody, and I mean nobody, is buying from MKR because of their service. The fact that their stated goal is to put people like you and everyone else here out of business, should give a clear indication of how good their service is.

You and everyone else that is buying from MKR are buying because it's cheap. I will respect anyone that buys from them, as long as their willing to admit their reasons for it. This industry is chalk full of respectable people. On this very forum we have Adam, Vaughn, N.E.R.D., evan and several other known breeders that have a long history of excellent service to their customers. Many people have assisted me without me even being a customer. The only separation between the folks I've mentioned and MKR, is that MKR is selling a full 50% below the retail market and at 10% of the retail prices from a year before.

As for the situation as a whole? As much as Joe likes to claim he's the biggest out there, both Bob and Mike are breeding at least twice what Joe is. And as for his goal of putting everyone else out of business... do you honestly think it's going to happen? Microsoft and Walmart have been unable to do that... so why believe some car salesman has either the means or the know-how to accomplish something two of the largest companies in the world can't?

Remember, there are litterally hundreds if not thousands of combinations for ball pythons. MKR will NEVER be able to keep their supply up to meet the demand. To be honest, I don't think MKR will be in business by the time we are all voting for the next President (well... for those of us in the US).

The target buyer of a ball python is typically someone that wants to breed them. Those that are going to be purchasing from Joe obviously don't have the business sense to realize that he is going to be cost-cutting them as well. That pretty much signifies Joe is only going to be able to target people that are just like him, and we've been seeing that for YEARS. I mean, take a look at King Snake, or Fauna... people are driving down prices there ALL THE TIME, yet breeders as small as Adam and as big as NERD are managing to keep their prices relatively stable. And last I checked, Adam is selling off his snakes like canned food in a hurricane.

Everyone just needs to relax. The heat will die down, and I'm willing to bet that the Mojave and Spider market will probably hold once the fear has passed. This market requires patience... and I'm willing to wait it out until the car salesman finds someone new to screw over. :)

Marketing 101:

Ok you lower the price on every morph that comes out and customer that wants one buys one. You sell out and now person that wanted whatever morph has one who is there left to sell to? So next year its the next morph same story. Pretty soon the only thing you can sale is the newest hottest morph out why your target customer base has filled their need/want for everything you offerd in the previous years and doesnt wish to buy anything but the newest/hottest so in say 10 years you have limited your customer base to one maybe a max of 4 new morphs year. And at the price he pays for them and the rate at pythons breed MKR will be paying more for the breeding pairs than they can make back.

Ok now time to put it to numbers say MKR bought 10 lesser Platties at the market price of 50,000.00 each snake 4 years ago rasied them and breed them all to produce snakes this year. At the price he was charging of say 1200.00 a peice for a lesser he would have to sale 417 snake just to make his money back. Now there is no way a 3 year old female can lay ten eggs but lets say she can. Remeber MKR bought 10 snake 5 male and 5 female thats only 50 eggs at 1200.00 each thats still only $60,000 he is loosing money. Next year he has to buy the newest morph out at a huge rate to breed in the next three to four years.. See.. you give him enough rope and he'll hang HIMSELF.. My advice if you don't like they way he does business. BUY 8BALL!!!!

jhall - very very VERY well said!

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

A few years ago I weighed about 260 lbs. I used to get really offended when people would make comments about my weight. But the fact remained I was fat.

I find this to be true of most circumstances. That which is true tends to hit us the hardest, especially when it's entirely the individuals fault. Nobody, and I mean nobody, is buying from MKR because of their service. The fact that their stated goal is to put people like you and everyone else here out of business, should give a clear indication of how good their service is.

You and everyone else that is buying from MKR are buying because it's cheap. I will respect anyone that buys from them, as long as their willing to admit their reasons for it. This industry is chalk full of respectable people. On this very forum we have Adam, Vaughn, N.E.R.D., evan and several other known breeders that have a long history of excellent service to their customers. Many people have assisted me without me even being a customer. The only separation between the folks I've mentioned and MKR, is that MKR is selling a full 50% below the retail market and at 10% of the retail prices from a year before.

As for the situation as a whole? As much as Joe likes to claim he's the biggest out there, both Bob and Mike are breeding at least twice what Joe is. And as for his goal of putting everyone else out of business... do you honestly think it's going to happen? Microsoft and Walmart have been unable to do that... so why believe some car salesman has either the means or the know-how to accomplish something two of the largest companies in the world can't?

Remember, there are litterally hundreds if not thousands of combinations for ball pythons. MKR will NEVER be able to keep their supply up to meet the demand. To be honest, I don't think MKR will be in business by the time we are all voting for the next President (well... for those of us in the US).

The target buyer of a ball python is typically someone that wants to breed them. Those that are going to be purchasing from Joe obviously don't have the business sense to realize that he is going to be cost-cutting them as well. That pretty much signifies Joe is only going to be able to target people that are just like him, and we've been seeing that for YEARS. I mean, take a look at King Snake, or Fauna... people are driving down prices there ALL THE TIME, yet breeders as small as Adam and as big as NERD are managing to keep their prices relatively stable. And last I checked, Adam is selling off his snakes like canned food in a hurricane.

Everyone just needs to relax. The heat will die down, and I'm willing to bet that the Mojave and Spider market will probably hold once the fear has passed. This market requires patience... and I'm willing to wait it out until the car salesman finds someone new to screw over. :)

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Your post gave me some comfort; I only hope that you're right. I hope this does not kill our hobby; it seriously and literally frightens me.

Wow JHall! Excellent post!

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Your post gave me some comfort; I only hope that you're right. I hope this does not kill our hobby; it seriously and literally frightens me.

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You and a lot of others. But it's fairly fitting that Joe was a car salesman. He thinks like a car salesman. He sees a short term cash cow, but apparently failed basic math (as our resident amphibian pointed out) because in long-term he is going to be cash-flow negative. You buy a bag of flour for $10 and sell it for $5, you're going to sell a LOT of flour, but you sure as heck aren't going to make any money from it.

I think most of this fear is derived from MKR being so "big." But talking like Walmart doesn't make you CEO. Joe market dumped 50 Mojave's... big deal. By the time the breeding season is in full force go to King Snake and count how many Spiders, Mojave's, Pastels and other morphs are being sold at 50% below retail. Sure it's not all from one guy, but I bet it's more than 50.

Do what you love and the money will follow... and even if it doesn't. Snakes are too damn cool to care :).