Reptile Pricing, selling, and the market

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Originally Posted by ssscales

How can you control this?

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YOU DON’T. THE BEST YOU CAN DO IS LOOK AT THE MARCKET AND PRICE YOUR SNAKES AT WHAT YOU THINK THEY ARE WORTH. JUST BECAUSE ALBS WILL BE GOING FOR 500-600 THIS YEAR DOSNT MEAN YOU HAVE TO PRICE YOURS AT THAT PRICE. BUT YOU NEED TO BE READY NOT TO SELL OUT IN THE FIRST MONTH. IN MY OPINION TO FIGURE OUT WHAT PRICES ARE YOU NEED TO LOOK AROUND AND COMPARE WHAT YOU HAVE AND WHAT OTHERS HAVE. COMPARE QUALITY AND PRICE. IF YOURS AND THERES ARE ALMOST IDENTICAL AND YOU ARE CHARGING 2 TIMES AS MUCH YOU MAY NEED TO REVALUATE SOME THINGS.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I'm not talking about controlling anything ... and I'm not talking about the public at large ... I'm talking about "breeders" or would be "breeders" that go online and say it's a shame to see prices drop and behind the scenes they are the first ones to pounce on a "deal" from a low baller. Then the following year or two when that "breeder" starts producing, they'll be telling people what a great investment the morphs that they are producing are in order to sell animals ... what a crock.

It has NOTHING to do with "control" and everything to do with honesty, trust, and believing in the market that you are making money from or planning to make money from ... some people do their best to support their customers, maximize their customers investments, and actually believe in what they are doing .... others crap all over their own customers and/or potential customers, sometimes even before they sell a single animal.

But all this is nothing new, it's been that way forever and it will always be that way. :rockon:

-adam

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I agree 100% on this! There are those breeders that support their customers knowing that they are buying investment animals and have plans to breed them and then there are the Morph Kings and Kingsnake price droppers of the world. Why would I buy from them when I know they won't be there after the sale, won't do anything to keep the market stabilized so my investment doesn't drop like a stone and in general, don't care about anything except lining their own pockets? Your choice who you want to buy from, but if you contribute to the mess, you lose your right to complain about it in the future. Just my 2 cents... :2cent:

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Originally Posted by BALLISTIC BOAS

YOU DON’T. THE BEST YOU CAN DO IS LOOK AT THE MARCKET AND PRICE YOUR SNAKES AT WHAT YOU THINK THEY ARE WORTH. JUST BECAUSE ALBS WILL BE GOING FOR 500-600 THIS YEAR DOSNT MEAN YOU HAVE TO PRICE YOURS AT THAT PRICE. BUT YOU NEED TO BE READY NOT TO SELL OUT IN THE FIRST MONTH. IN MY OPINION TO FIGURE OUT WHAT PRICES ARE YOU NEED TO LOOK AROUND AND COMPARE WHAT YOU HAVE AND WHAT OTHERS HAVE. COMPARE QUALITY AND PRICE. IF YOURS AND THERES ARE ALMOST IDENTICAL AND YOU ARE CHARGING 2 TIMES AS MUCH YOU MAY NEED TO REVALUATE SOME THINGS.

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Exactly, that's all anyone can do in a free market! Just price them according to the market range at the time and what you feel they are worth based on your litter/clutch/individual. Whether that be $5000 or $1000 or $500 or $100, whether it's below market value or above market value. Price them right and let them sit and enjoy them till they sell!

I am beginning to thing that You (Gerry) and You (Adam) are talking about two different subjects. Both points are valid, but you two are crossing paths along the way. Adam does have a good point about those who complain about the market falling, but will jump on the first deal that comes across to them...which is why I try to buy from only "big" breeders who have stable prices. Gerry has a good point on the "no" control of the market, but it won't stop me from complaining about it ;) I just hate to think of the money I've dropped into albinos and hets just to turn around and have to sell them for half the price I paid to make anything off them. Life is a gamble, roll the dice!

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Originally Posted by jim020cricket

I just hate to think of the money I've dropped into albinos and hets just to turn around and have to sell them for half the price I paid to make anything off them. Life is a gamble, roll the dice!

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I see your point, but what can you or me do about it? I also paid $1000 and even $2000+ for those same exact Albino boas and Dhets 1-4yrs ago that are now selling for $500-$750. What can I do about it? Who should I blame and point the finger at? My customers? Should I go around insulting/threatening/bashing them because they decide to buy a $500 Albino Vs paying me $1000 in todays market? Should they feel for me or you because we decided to spend $1000's on snakes?

I know I can't honestly go around on a bashing spree calling all sellers bad guys, simply because they sell for less in todays market. I disagree with the public 24hr sales and the week by week drop in price, but that is their business and they are not breaking any laws. I think it's wrong to do it publicly as a seller as it looks desperate, but can I honestly tell people don't buy from those people? What would be the excuse...they sell less than me? Does that sound right? Hell, I keep my ear to the ground waiting for those $2000 Pieds or $500 Albino BP's!! What is wrong with that?? That I'm contributing to lower prices or that I refuse to overpay in this unstable market caused by sellers?

Times have changed and we need to change like it or not. No matter how much I would want Albino boa prices to stay at $1000+, you need to come to reality that they are now $750 and some will be sold for more and some will be sold for less.

Example: I paid $4500 for a Motley just a few months back, now they are down to $3500...what can I do about it? I paid $4500, I'll pair my overpriced Motley to my overpriced Albino female next year and get 10-15 Motley Het Albinos that are now selling for $8k-$10K each. Will they be at $10k by the time I have babies...in my dreams! Will I be upset...not for one minute! Should I?

I would not dare question someone for buying a snake at 1/2 the price I paid. Good for them! In the world that's called a bargain if they got what they wanted and are happy with the transaction. Are they to blame for buying for less or are we to blame for paying too much? If you have option "A" $2000 or option "B" $1000 and you chose A, it's your decision.

With that said, I've got cash all set lined up for those 1.3 Pieds behind the parking lot! My only concern when I find that Perfect Pied deal that meets all my expectations, will not "Damn, I should've paid an extra $6000 to sleep better tonight, crap!". But, "I got a deal today, but how will I feel next month when I could've paid $500 less?".

I can't control what people sell their snakes for, but I can control what I pay and what I sell my snakes for. I'll price my Albinos or Dhets or Motleys for what I feel they are worth based on market and individual quality and that will be it. It may be high to some yet low to others, but as long as you are happy with what your getting and producing...great!

Just my $0.02.

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Originally Posted by ssscales

I know I can't honestly go around on a bashing spree calling all sellers bad guys, simply because they sell for less in todays market. I disagree with the public 24hr sales and the week by week drop in price, but that is their business and they are not breaking any laws.

I would not dare question someone for buying a snake at 1/2 the price I paid. Good for them! In the world that's called a bargain if they got what they wanted and are happy with the transaction. Are they to blame for buying for less or are we to blame for paying too much? If you have option "A" $2000 or option "B" $1000 and you chose A, it's your decision.

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wow i couldn't agree more with this. the whole point of these boards is to have a place to come and post pics of our new stuff and talk about it with friends that have good experiences. People ask for opinions on purchases and advise. It makes me sick to see people who jump on anyone when he/she bought some snake for less (not more) than they think it was worth. That's correct, jump on them because they paid less than they think it was worth. Usually it's the opposite where people speak out about possibly overpaying or getting ripped off for something to that nature. Not speaking out negatively about someone getting a deal and paying less.

Something doesn't add up..:2cent:

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Originally Posted by ssscales

I see your point, but what can you or me do about it? I also paid $1000 and even $2000+ for those same exact Albino boas and Dhets 1-4yrs ago that are now selling for $500-$750. What can I do about it? Who should I blame and point the finger at? My customers? Should I go around insulting/threatening/bashing them because they decide to buy a $500 Albino Vs paying me $1000 in todays market? Should they feel for me or you because we decided to spend $1000's on snakes?

I know I can't honestly go around on a bashing spree calling all sellers bad guys, simply because they sell for less in todays market. I disagree with the public 24hr sales and the week by week drop in price, but that is their business and they are not breaking any laws. I think it's wrong to do it publicly as a seller as it looks desperate, but can I honestly tell people don't buy from those people? What would be the excuse...they sell less than me? Does that sound right? Hell, I keep my ear to the ground waiting for those $2000 Pieds or $500 Albino BP's!! What is wrong with that?? That I'm contributing to lower prices or that I refuse to overpay in this unstable market caused by sellers?

Times have changed and we need to change like it or not. No matter how much I would want Albino boa prices to stay at $1000+, you need to come to reality that they are now $750 and some will be sold for more and some will be sold for less.

Example: I paid $4500 for a Motley just a few months back, now they are down to $3500...what can I do about it? I paid $4500, I'll pair my overpriced Motley to my overpriced Albino female next year and get 10-15 Motley Het Albinos that are now selling for $8k-$10K each. Will they be at $10k by the time I have babies...in my dreams! Will I be upset...not for one minute! Should I?

I would not dare question someone for buying a snake at 1/2 the price I paid. Good for them! In the world that's called a bargain if they got what they wanted and are happy with the transaction. Are they to blame for buying for less or are we to blame for paying too much? If you have option "A" $2000 or option "B" $1000 and you chose A, it's your decision.

With that said, I've got cash all set lined up for those 1.3 Pieds behind the parking lot! My only concern when I find that Perfect Pied deal that meets all my expectations, will not "Damn, I should've paid an extra $6000 to sleep better tonight, crap!". But, "I got a deal today, but how will I feel next month when I could've paid $500 less?".

I can't control what people sell their snakes for, but I can control what I pay and what I sell my snakes for. I'll price my Albinos or Dhets or Motleys for what I feel they are worth based on market and individual quality and that will be it. It may be high to some yet low to others, but as long as you are happy with what your getting and producing...great!

Just my $0.02.

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I had to go back and reread my posts to see if this was aimed at me. I don't think it was but you never know do you. I'm sorry you paid 4500 for a motley, but you could have met someone with cash in a alley and paid 2000. ;)

Oh yeah, aren't those paradigms nice! :petting:

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Originally Posted by jim020cricket

I had to go back and reread my posts to see if this was aimed at me. I don't think it was but you never know do you. I'm sorry you paid 4500 for a motley, but you could have met someone with cash in a alley and paid 2000. ;)

Oh yeah, aren't those paradigms nice! :petting:

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LOL...it wasn't aimed at anyone, but I wish I would've paid $2000 for my Motley, but it's ok, I love Boas. At the time $4500 was it for Motley's and this was a great deal, IMO. That's the whole point and the only point, as long as you're happy with it in the end. You can't compare what we paid for Albinos 2yrs ago to what they are today.

Am I upset for paying $4500 when I could've bought one today for $3500, not at all! Would I be happier today if I bought my male for $2000 and had an extra $2500 to spend on more boas, absolutely! Will I be upset if they drop to $2000, I would love a female for some Supers! $2000 Motleys, here I come!:) $1500 Motleys, it would be nice to add an extra male/add some new blood..$1500 Motley, PayPal payment going your way....:D

My criteria is simple, I buy direct from breeders not jobbers, (Big breeder or Small breeder), as long as the quality is there, the animal is well represented, the customer service is there and the relationship and trust is there, it makes no difference to me the size of their facility or how much they made this year. If both these breeders meet that criteria, only ones income was $800k+ and has a 3000sqft facility Vs the hobbyist/part time breeder that only has 1-2-3+ clutches/litters of nice snakes that he or she wants to sell to buy more snakes. Why should I only buy from the first and disregard the latter? I have nothing against either in this case, but when one is asking $1000's more for what I feel are similar snakes, why should I be forced to pay the higher price tag? You do realize that this means I should not buy from guys and gals like you and Matt and 1000's of others (which I fall into as well) on these forums when you have snakes to sell? I agree 100% on paying for quality, I've seen plenty of garbage on both sides of the price range! I've seen crap at the high end and crap at the low end, I've seen great snakes at the high end and great snakes at the low end. Why should I ignore those with great snakes and service at the low end, simply because the are priced lower. Does that sound right?

Price is one piece of this market, the rest is a lot of fun and work! And I know your going to say "how would your customers feel if they paid $2000 for a morph and then saw the average price drop to $1000?". Unfortunately and honestly this is the market some of these morphs are in today and if my customers or anyone can not accept the possibility that this may occur down the road, than they should not spend more than they can really afford on a snake! I'm sorry, but this is the fact!

I like certain BP's, but if I had a choice would I pay $5000 today or $2000 next year? I would wait, no rush at all! Sharp Albino Boas, $2000 next year or $1000 in 2-3 years? I'll be taking 2 next year, hopefully Jim will have some for sale from those Hets and will give Matt and me a good deal or possibly trades...Oh but, wait...we're only supposed to buy from certain breeders. ;)

Jim, you can't control what breeders/sellers sell their snakes for, the market will change with or without you or me or any of us. Whether they are valued at a $1000 and some sell them at $2,000 or $500, it's up to you who you buy from, what you pay and what will you will sell your babies for.

On one hand it is sad to see prices drop like they have because I love these snakes and think some are worth more. But, on the other hand...Great, lower prices!! :D

And if you're lucky enough to have that friendship with that breeder that can hook you up at the closest show parking lot or invite you to their house for BBQ and give you a 1/2 price deal on that snake you love or even say "It's free!", good for you!

:sweeet: Isn't it great?

Your essays are making me need reading glasses ;)

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Originally Posted by jim020cricket

Adam does have a good point about those who complain about the market falling, but will jump on the first deal that comes across to them...which is why I try to buy from only "big" breeders who have stable prices.

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Right on man! :rockon: