Whoa! I've got to get me a Yellow-Belly!

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

So far, it has not been reproducible in any way.

-adam

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So Paradox_Albinos usually just beget regular albinos.

Don't know if anyone knows this but.....

Are paradox albinos ever created from albino x albino crosses or do they only show up from het albino x het albino crosses? Or doesnt it matter?

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

One of the most popular theories on paradox balls is that the "paradox" part comes from a "malfunction" in an upper/outer dermal layer ... the "malfunction" sometimes manifests itself as black ink stains, other times as complete pattern ... but the overall belief from the people that I've spoken with is that the causality is the same … just different degrees.

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Of the paradox albinos that have been produced, are there usually just one in a clutch or multiples like the odd pattern ivories? If it was just one, you'd think there was something different at work with the ivories. Do you think ringers are similar in nature to the paradoxes, or is that something completely different?

I think Paradox is a good term when used on white or mostly white snakes like albinos and ivories, and probably BEL if they ever show up on them.... mostly because any DARK marking on a white snake, is "exhibiting inexplicable or contradictory aspects"

Dark markings on a white snake, is definitely contradictory, and as far as "inexplicable", I think we can gather from Adam's comment that they are difficult or impossible to explain (yet).

Why do you think Paradox is a bad word to explain it, or do you agree on white snakes, but just not if the term is thrown around generically instead of people taking a closer look and trying to figure it out.

I imagine a lot of people would call a ringer a paradox marking if it wasnt genetically proveable?

This, among other recent "new" ball morphs, is good news for the crippled YB :carouse:

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

I think Paradox is a good term when used on white or mostly white snakes like albinos and ivories, and probably BEL if they ever show up on them.... mostly because any DARK marking on a white snake, is "exhibiting inexplicable or contradictory aspects"

Dark markings on a white snake, is definitely contradictory, and as far as "inexplicable", I think we can gather from Adam's comment that they are difficult or impossible to explain (yet).

Why do you think Paradox is a bad word to explain it, or do you agree on white snakes, but just not if the term is thrown around generically instead of people taking a closer look and trying to figure it out.

I imagine a lot of people would call a ringer a paradox marking if it wasnt genetically proveable?

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I guess I was thinking very specifically since we know albinos dont make melanin and they have black markings which is a paradox.

I'm not sure what makes ivories white......but you've made a decent case for the use of the term.

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Originally Posted by xdeus

Of the paradox albinos that have been produced, are there usually just one in a clutch or multiples like the odd pattern ivories? If it was just one, you'd think there was something different at work with the ivories. Do you think ringers are similar in nature to the paradoxes, or is that something completely different?

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There have been multiples in a clutch before ... this is really nothing new, just the first time with YB/Ivories.

Ringers are different .... they are WAY more common (even little old me produced a number of ringers this year), and actually in some cases predictable (I knew I would get some for sure this year). There is a consistancy to ringers not only in the color and pattern, but also in the location that is 100% completely different than the paradoxing that occurs.

If you take a good look at the paradox super mojave, it's got the same thing going on as the paradox ivories.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

I guess you could stretch this definition and say this is an unexplained marking superimposed on an ivory. But it does seem a like a big stretch......and its certainly not a “paradox” in the literal sense of the word.

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From the definition of paradox on answers.com ...

"One exhibiting inexplicable or contradictory aspects"

It has nothing to do with genetics ... It has to do with the fact that every other YB x YB pairing that produces ivories, consistently produces them as a white snake, yellow stripe, brownish hues .... then, an "ivory" is produced with elements of pattern that is contradictory to what the breeder expected and those pattern elements are inexplicable ... paradox seems like the perfect word to me.

Ball python breeders are business people and hobbyists ... not scientists. :banana:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

I guess I was thinking very specifically since we know albinos dont make melanin and they have black markings which is a paradox.

I'm not sure what makes ivories white......but you've made a decent case for the use of the term.

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I'll take it!~! :)

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

From the definition of paradox on answers.com ...

"One exhibiting inexplicable or contradictory aspects"

It has nothing to do with genetics ... It has to do with the fact that every other YB x YB pairing that produces ivories, consistently produces them as a white snake, yellow stripe, brownish hues .... then, an "ivory" is produced with elements of pattern that is contradictory to what the breeder expected and those pattern elements are inexplicable ... paradox seems like the perfect word to me.

Ball python breeders are business people and hobbyists ... not scientists. :banana:
-adam

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I agree now.
SillySnake started changing my thinking.
And you rammed it home.....

Like I said I think I was thinking very specifically when I wrote that......I didnt see how it was contradictory from a biological/biochemical perspective. I sometimes think at a different level (the molecular level) at first because of my background.

but just because I didnt see how it exactly wasnt contradictory doesnt mean it's not! I wasnt really focusing on just how werid that pattern on an ivory (which is still a pretty new morph to me also). Now if I had hatch it myself.....I dont think I'd have had that mental block....LOL

Anyway I've learned a lot since the beginning of this thread.....when I thought paradox was a specific trait. Thanks for your help.

And your right breeders arent professional scientists.....but if you discover the genetics of a trait and prove a morph to me your an amateur scientist for sure.

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Originally Posted by cueball

This, among other recent "new" ball morphs, is good news for the crippled YB :carouse:

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I don't think this will have much of an impact if it is somehow related to other paradoxes. If it's not genetic and just shows up occasionally, I doubt if people will try to work that into their plans. Now that freaky stripe that was produced... that's made me want to get one. :tongue2: