Maybe it's just me...

Boaphile

http://www.theboaphile.com/information.html

Bob Clark
http://www.bobclark.com/tracker.asp

Ralph Davis
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/cu...able/terms.asp

These are a few that offer UPS as an option.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

What big breeders are shipping UPS? Do they have a certification through UPS or are they doing it against the official UPS policy? If they have gotten some sort of UPS approval, is that someone anyone can get?

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I have a better question.

Does it matter? If the breeder is guarenteeing live arrival (ie replacement animal or money back if something goes wrong) why would you care how he/she gets it to you? If a 'big guy' has a good reputation and if known for doing right by their customers, I think it's a safe bet that they know what they're doing when it comes to shipping.

If a buyer has a personal preference as to shipping and the breeder you are working with uses something else ... why not just move on? There are plenty of breeders out there that will ship any way you want.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I have a better question.

Does it matter? If the breeder is guarenteeing live arrival (ie replacement animal or money back if something goes wrong) why would you care how he/she gets it to you? If a 'big guy' has a good reputation and if known for doing right by their customers, I think it's a safe bet that they know what they're doing when it comes to shipping.

If a buyer has a personal preference as to shipping and the breeder you are working with uses something else ... why not just move on? There are plenty of breeders out there that will ship any way you want.

-adam

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To me it doesn't matter particularly. I would never order a snake shipped through UPS. I have seen how they treat the boxes that they are responsible for delivering in one piece. I have personally received packages multiple times that were practically destroyed by them. So it just brings me back to the question: Are the breeders who ship UPS aware of how UPS may be treating their animals? I personally would like my animals delivered via Pony Express but I believe they are no longer operating in my area.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jglass38

I have seen how they treat the boxes that they are responsible for delivering in one piece.

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Do you honestly believe that an employee working for UPS treats a package differently than an employee working for FedEx, Delta, or any other company that handles thousands of packages each day. Do you have any idea how many people handle each package from one end of a shipment to the other, and do you honestly believe that any one of the can really give 2 poops what's actually inside of one box out of thousands when they have bills to pay, kids at home with fevers, alimony payments, cars in the shop, and all of the other pains that real people working their butts off to make ends meat have?

If you've had a bad experience with UPS, that's a shame ... but I bet there are just as many people that have had bad experiences with FedEx and other carriers as well.

In reality, which carrier is used doesn't matter at all as long as the breeder you are buying from A. knows how to pack the animal to not only handle weather, but the potential abuse from a carrier that is having a not so great day and B. stands behind their product 100% .... A breeder that will guarantees live arrival and means it ... 100% refund or a replacement animal is something goes wrong.

-adam

To me it matters as down the road I may want to offer UPS and an alternative courier or if UPS delivers to an area that FedEx doesn't or if a particular buyer wishes me to ship via UPS instead of FedEx.

Now I am curious, because for years I assumed UPS had a certification process for these breeders and wholesalers shipping through UPS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Do you honestly believe that an employee working for UPS treats a package differently than an employee working for FedEx, Delta, or any other company that handles thousands of packages each day. Do you have any idea how many people handle each package from one end of a shipment to the other, and do you honestly believe that any one of the can really give 2 poops what's actually inside of one box out of thousands when they have bills to pay, kids at home with fevers, alimony payments, cars in the shop, and all of the other pains that real people working their butts off to make ends meat have?

If you've had a bad experience with UPS, that's a shame ... but I bet there are just as many people that have had bad experiences with FedEx and other carriers as well.

In reality, which carrier is used doesn't matter at all as long as the breeder you are buying from A. knows how to pack the animal to not only handle weather, but the potential abuse from a carrier that is having a not so great day and B. stands behind their product 100% .... A breeder that will guarantees live arrival and means it ... 100% refund or a replacement animal is something goes wrong.

-adam

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I agree 100% except for one thing. Delta and FedEx allow shippers to become certified. With that certification comes the ability to legally mark your package as LIVE HARMLESS REPTILES with a latin and common name of the animal inside. In my mind (and I could be out of my mind) I would hope that a counter rep, sorter, loader or driver would see that and treat the box a bit more carefully (barring the total sadists out there) than an unmarked package. If UPS does NOT allow legal shipments of snakes, then these breeders shipping via them would not risk violating any laws by marking the package as they would with FedEx or Delta. Am I way off here?

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Originally Posted by kavmon

if the ups thing bothers you that much, just do the delta dash. problem solved. vaughn

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I already said in like my 3rd post i was just doing the delta dash.


So Adam, as long as I can get a refund or a replacement , it doesn't matter if the animal is mistreated through shipment, or if it dies?? Since I will get a refund if something happens, I shouldn't care what happens to it in between there and here??

and I agree with you jamie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jglass38

I agree 100% except for one thing. Delta and FedEx allow shippers to become certified. With that certification comes the ability to legally mark your package as LIVE HARMLESS REPTILES with a latin and common name of the animal inside. In my mind (and I could be out of my mind) I would hope that a counter rep, sorter, loader or driver would see that and treat the box a bit more carefully (barring the total sadists out there) than an unmarked package.

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Why would you think that a counter rep, sorter, loader, or driver would actually care? If they're going to trash boxes that could contain breakable objects that people paid good money for, do you think that a label with the word "reptile" on it is going to turn them into mother theresa? LOL ... My guess is that they would kick it even harder. Nice people are nice people and jerks are jerks ... labels and certification processes don't change that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jglass38

If UPS does NOT allow legal shipments of snakes, then these breeders shipping via them would not risk violating any laws by marking the package as they would with FedEx or Delta. Am I way off here?

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According to what's been posted on this thread, it's not ILLEGAL to ship snakes via UPS ... barring the existance of a certification process, it's against their terms of service. No crime would be committed. It's like bringing food into a movie theatre ... you don't get arrested, they just have the right to ask you to leave ... but for the most part, all they really want you to do is give them your money. ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by adizziedoll

So Adam, as long as I can get a refund or a replacement , it doesn't matter if the animal is mistreated through shipment, or if it dies?? Since I will get a refund if something happens, I shouldn't care what happens to it in between there and here??

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If the animal is packed correctly why would it die? How could it be "mistreated"? ... Rough handling, getting lost, etc are all things that can happen on ANY carrier ... there is not "magic" service that comes with certification. All of the boxes are handled the same. I guess I just don't get it.

-adam

I have to disagree with you there Adam. Odds are, a guy who would normally throw a box on to the conveyor belt might be a little gentler with one that has a live animal in it. Of course there are those lunatics out there.

As far as whats legal or not, its against UPS terms of service. So it goes to reason that these breeders would NOT be marking the boxes and theoretically could put their animals at further risk.

I enjoy a good debate and I think this is a valid one.