Hard time switching to frozen, strange day time behavior

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Originally Posted by Danya

At this point this thread is just me updating on stuff and asking questions. I need to figure out how to rename it, Haha. Anyways, I have a few questions about tub setups. I have a large tub for my snake's future because I'll hopefully start keeping more snakes in a few years(once I figure out how a BP works) and I'll probably keep all of them in tubs. When my snake grows up, I want to have all the knowledge on how tubs work so I'm going to ask some questions now. I was wondering if it is safe to use a ZooMed UTH on a tub because there's always a chance that the thermostat will break and the plastic will melt. Is there any way to totally prevent that or at least really lower the chances of that happening? I was also wondering if a tub can be too high for a BP because my tub is quite large in that aspect. Those are my only questions for now, all answers are greatly appreciated! :-)

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I don't use tubs, so won't be any help. You should start a new thread though, you'll get more replies. Good luck :)

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Originally Posted by Danya

At this point this thread is just me updating on stuff and asking questions. I need to figure out how to rename it, Haha. Anyways, I have a few questions about tub setups. I have a large tub for my snake's future because I'll hopefully start keeping more snakes in a few years(once I figure out how a BP works) and I'll probably keep all of them in tubs. When my snake grows up, I want to have all the knowledge on how tubs work so I'm going to ask some questions now. I was wondering if it is safe to use a ZooMed UTH on a tub because there's always a chance that the thermostat will break and the plastic will melt. Is there any way to totally prevent that or at least really lower the chances of that happening?

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a thermostat will lower the chance of something bad happening -- that's why you buy a high quality one that's unlikely to malfunction, like the Herpstats, or Vivarium Electronics' 'stats.

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Originally Posted by Danya

I was also wondering if a tub can be too high for a BP because my tub is quite large in that aspect. Those are my only questions for now, all answers are greatly appreciated! :-)

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I use a fairly large tub for my juvenile ball python, and I've used it since she was 59 grams. it's a 39x21x18 sterilite tub, and i currently have a CHE/UVB fixture attached to it to help keep the ambient temperatures where they should be. i also don't really use a UTH much because of the CHE - it makes a hot spot right beneath the CHE, negating a need for a UTH. only time i really use a UTH is to make the cold side go up some, which was an issue over the winter. not so much now that the temperatures have (sort of.... darn nature...) risen again.

i'm currently working on setting up a christmas tree tote (52x20x15) with a radiant heat panel and a UVB strip light. both are already installed, i'm just waiting to key it in to the right temps at the moment. Maze won't be in there for another month at least, maybe more depending on how life goes.

Thanks for your information! I'm probably going to invest into a JumpStart Thermostat soon because mine isn't the best. That's a pretty large tub, was your snake not stressed at all when it was that small? I currently don't really know the exact measurements for my tub but it's fairly large. How long do you think I should wait until moving my 5 month old(~110 gram) baby BP? Thanks for reading.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Danya

I was wondering if it is safe to use a ZooMed UTH on a tub because there's always a chance that the thermostat will break and the plastic will melt. Is there any way to totally prevent that or at least really lower the chances of that happening? I was also wondering if a tub can be too high for a BP because my tub is quite large in that aspect. Those are my only questions for now, all answers are greatly appreciated! :-)

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I would get Ultratherm UTH off reptilebasics. The Zoomed UTH reach a much higher temp when uncontrolled (125~130+ degrees), while ultratherms only reach about 110 or so, so it's much safer.

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Originally Posted by Danya

Thanks for your information! I'm probably going to invest into a JumpStart Thermostat soon because mine isn't the best. That's a pretty large tub, was your snake not stressed at all when it was that small? I currently don't really know the exact measurements for my tub but it's fairly large. How long do you think I should wait until moving my 5 month old(~110 gram) baby BP? Thanks for reading.

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I would not recommend going with a large enclosure like that anytime soon for how you are already having problems and are a new keeper still figuring things out. Large enclosures place many more factors into why a ball python might not be eating, might not be accepting f/t, or isn't behaving normally.

The most important aspect of even keeping a young ball python in a large enclosure is the necessity to add many hides, vines, and just a a lot of "clutter" on the ground to provide many, many hiding spots, "walls", and security for it. And if you don't get it "right", the ball python won't eat, or will have a harder time accepting f/t. And for a ball python who isn't already extremely foody and well-settled, you want to lessen the factors.

It's nice to hear about other people using big tubs for their ball pythons, but it's not necessary yet by any means. For your BP and your situation, I personally wouldn't even bother considering it until your BP is at least 800g+.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

I would get Ultratherm UTH off reptilebasics. The Zoomed UTH reach a much higher temp when uncontrolled (125~130+ degrees), while ultratherms only reach about 110 or so, so it's much safer.



I would not recommend going with a large enclosure like that anytime soon for how you are already having problems and are a new keeper still figuring things out. Large enclosures place many more factors into why a ball python might not be eating, might not be accepting f/t, or isn't behaving normally.

The most important aspect of even keeping a young ball python in a large enclosure is the necessity to add many hides, vines, and just a a lot of "clutter" on the ground to provide many, many hiding spots, "walls", and security for it. And if you don't get it "right", the ball python won't eat, or will have a harder time accepting f/t. And for a ball python who isn't already extremely foody and well-settled, you want to lessen the factors.

It's nice to hear about other people using big tubs for their ball pythons, but it's not necessary yet by any means. For your BP and your situation, I personally wouldn't even bother considering it until your BP is at least 800g+.

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I have to agree with this. If you're already in the process of fixing your husbandry and experiencing difficulties, I would not try to go for a more ambitious set-up. Keep it simple and achievable and learn and understand the rules before you try to break them.

I admit I also started larger with tons of clutter, cover and multiple hides. My boy (I got him at 126 grams) has been doing absolutely phenomenal but what worked for me may not work for others and I definitely wouldn't recommend for new keepers to follow the same path when there are already existing problems. While there are some keepers who have been successful with hatchlings in larger set ups, I don't feel it's something that should be casually encouraged without considering troubleshooting and additional complications that may come with it. It has to be done properly to work with little room for error, and frankly not everyone knows how to do it right. Success also varies on snake to snake so it's not a one size fits all situation.

I second redshepherd's recommendation on holding off on anything larger until your bp has been an established eater and grown a bit in the 500-800 gram range, but this will vary how your snake's behavior develops over time.

Equipment wise, definitely consider Ulltratherm heatmats. For thermostats if you want to go about saving money for a higher quality one you might as well invest in Herpstats as Jumpstart isn't as accurate or have the same longevity and safety features as proportional thermostats. Especially if you're worried about it potentially failing on you unexpectedly, which Jumpstarts have a tendency of needing to be replaced within the same year you get it.

Yeah, my comment wasn't a reccomendation that you should do this, only that it can be done successfully. I would follow redshep's advice and get your current setup working properly for a few months (snake eating included) before doing anything upgrade-wise.

Larger setups are awesome -- but a lot harder to do right.

Thank you all for your great advice but I have some terrible news. I was taking out Monty out for a little checkup because I knew he was going to shed soon(I wanted to know what a snake close to shedding feels like) and I found two mites on him. I quickly got some warm water into his future tub(yes it was thoroughly cleaned before this) and plopped the snake in. In 20 minutes of soaking I found another mite in the water. After that I collected the now three mites into a jar and closed it. Next, I thoroughly washed out the tub and it's lid and made a little flower pot hide, got a new little bowl of water and placed paper towl as bedding. I will be following GoHerping's mite guide(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnJqt9Up2eI) to get the mites as soon as I can out of the original enclosure. Now, my question. I heated up my room to about 82 degrees(F) so it doesn't go below 78 degrees at night. How long will my snake be ok without a heat pad?I will order the spray(from the video) tonight so it might only come in a day or two. Any other advice? I'm so dissapointed because I was just going to start a feeding schedule with him and I find mites.

If the room is 82, your snake will be fine without any other heating for now.

I recommend this guide:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...it-with-AaronP


Or this guide:

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Originally Posted by bcr229

I wrote this after my second battle with mites for people in the US. While other treatments, such as ivermectin injections and wiping the snakes with Frontline, do exist, I have not tried them so I've not included them in my own writeup. You can find out about Frontline at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwCA...&feature=share


Mite Eradication 101:


*** Permethrin ***


Permethrin comes in many forms - Provent-A-Mite (PAM), NIX/RID head lice treatment, Permethrin-10 from a livestock supply store, etc. Once mixed with water its half life is 30 days if kept out of direct sunlight.


PAM has several advantages. It has been tested for use with reptiles, and it comes ready to use. The disadvantages are that it's expensive and most reptile stores don't have it in stock, so you have to wait for it to be shipped to you if you don't have any on hand. Meanwhile the mites are busy feeding and breeding.


NIX/RID is cheaper than PAM and is readily available at WalMart, CVS, and other drug stores. It is also easy to dilute: mix one two ounce (59 ml) bottle of the cream rinse with one gallon of water.


At a dollar per ounce Permethrin-10 is the cheapest of the three options; one eight ounce bottle will make 240 gallons of solution, as only 6 milliliters of it are needed per gallon of water to make an effective mite spray. The upside is that if you have a lot of snakes to treat this will do it very economically. The downside is that it's all too easy to make too strong of a permethrin solution which can seriously injure or kill your snakes.


No matter which product you use, it must be used correctly. I've never applied any permethrin product directly onto my snakes as it's not needed for mite treatment, and permethrin poisoning in a snake can cause irreversible neurological damage or death.


Permethrin use: spray the enclosure, paper substrate, and hides with the diluted solution or PAM. DO NOT SPRAY THE WATER BOWL. Allow everything to dry completely before returning your snake to its home. Also keep a supply of treated and dried newspaper or paper towels and treated hides available so that when a snake makes a mess, you replace the soiled paper and hides with treated ones. Treat the enclosure every two to three weeks.


*** Natural Chemistry Reptile Spray ***


Reptile Spray kills mites on contact while wet, once it dries it loses its effectiveness pretty quickly. Reptile Spray is a solution of salts rather than an insecticide; it kills mites by dehydrating them. I don't spray the snakes as more ends up on the floor than on the snake. Instead, I spray a white paper towel with it and wipe it on the snake. That way you get even coverage on the snake, you can work it into the area under their chin really well as that's a favorite hiding place for mites, you don't stress out your snake, and you can look for mites on the paper towel to see how quickly they're being eradicated. Apply twice a week. Note - this stuff hurts like hell in an open wound.


*** Hot Shot No-Pest Strips ***


Some people take a Hot Shot No-Pest strip, cut it into pieces, put each piece into a small sealed container, poke some holes in the container, and put each container into the snake's enclosure. I've used the No-Pest strip but I just hang it in the snake room and close the door. Either way is effective, especially if you have a major outbreak.


If you do use it, remove the water bowls as the insecticide is strongly attracted to water and you don't want the snake drinking it. After 24 hours remove the strip (or pieces), put them into an airtight container for future use, air out the room, and put the water bowls back. Repeat treatment weekly.


Important! If you also keep tarantulas, feeder roaches/dubias, crickets, etc. do not use the No-Pest Strip as it can kill them too!!!!


*** Mild Dish Soap ***


One or two drops of mild dish detergent in your snake's bath water will break the surface tension and prevent mites from floating in the water so they drown. No more than that is needed, your snake should not look like it is taking a bubble bath.


*** Heat ***


Don't laugh, but a temperature of 135*F for five seconds will kill mites and the eggs. I purchased a heat gun used for stripping paint that can be set to blow hot air from 180*F through 1200*F. Using the heat gun and a temperature gun I heated the surfaces and crevices of my racks and enclosures to kill off any mite eggs that may have been laid outside the tubs. Don't get your enclosure surfaces and joined/glued areas too hot or you can damage them.


Mite treatment should continue for 30 days after you stop finding mites on your snake, as an egg can take that long to hatch.


*** FINAL NOTE ***


Effective quarantine means that you treat every new arrival as if it has mites, and new snakes are kept as far away from your established collection as possible for at least 90 days. I treat the quarantine enclosure, hides, and paper with permethrin a day or so before the new snake arrives, and I wipe it with a paper towel soaked in Reptile Spray as part of my inspection process when it comes out of the shipping box. If it has mites I will know it within a day or two at most. This also goes for snakes from "trusted" sources, my first mite outbreak ever came from someone I trusted.

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Here is where you can buy Prevent-a-mite

http://pro-products.com/provent-a-mite/


Here is another helpful thread with using Frontline spray as an alternative to Nix solution or Reptile spray

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-bugs!-(/page3


Just make sure you quarantine your bp for atleast 2-3 months while treating mites.

I'll invest into provent-a-mite too, I currently have EVERYTHING that was in my setup(no, not heat pads, haha) soaking in the bathtub fully submerged. It's been around 12-14 hours and I changed the water three times, so I'm guessing another bit and those mites and eggs will be fully drowned. Since my BP will probably shed today or tomorrow, when should I try and feed him? Thanks for all your replies.