i have a predisposition to never want any spiders or morphs

I'm torn on this.

The videos of "severe" wobble and cork screwing are hard to watch.

On the other hand, my Bumblebee "Maya" is such an amazing and wonderful snake, I am so glad to own her. She is 6 1/2 years old. BEAUTIFUL. Kept her coloring nicely. But best of all, she is the most "chill" Ball Python I have. Never seems upset. Not head shy. Curious but calm. Never seems to have a "bad hair day".
Just an all around wonderful snake to own. She also has no discernible wobble. Literally none that I can ever see. Every once in a while she misses the FT offered rat at the first strike, but that is the worst she's done.

However, I don't kid myself. I do know she carries the gene and the wobble or corkscrewing could suddenly start. Or her offspring could be badly affected. There are no guarantees.

All that said, most spider morphs do alright. Some are more quirky then others, but they eat and live good long lives.

If there are certain combos where a "severe" problem happens in more then a third of the hatchlings, I would never breed that combination, though. Its one thing to create quirky snakes. But if you accept that some or more then half of the hatchlings are not viable, just in order to get that one super special one, not ok imho.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seven-Thirty

in terms of mixing wobblers together, they tend to not thrive 99% of the time such as spider champagne, spider powerball, hidden gene woma champagne. But some of them come out perfectly normal like hidden gene woma spider, spotnose champagne, and spotnose hidden gene woma. Spotnose spider is iffybecause i've heard varying degress of the viability. Ben renick has made numerous combos of thatpairing and they'veall lived to adulthood with no noticeable problems or differences from regular spiders where as justin kobylka has stated that spider spotnose comes out extremely dingy but can still eat so, spider crosses with spotnose are still in infancy interms of information. (I got this information from asking them directly)

---

What about a hidden gene woma cinnamon? I have one of those and I haven't noticed any wobbling. Tbh I haven't really looked for it and he tends to miss when striking food but I assumed that hat was normal ball activity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zina10

If there are certain combos where a "severe" problem happens in more then a third of the hatchlings, I would never breed that combination, though. Its one thing to create quirky snakes. But if you accept that some or more then half of the hatchlings are not viable, just in order to get that one super special one, not ok imho.

---

this is how i feel, too. i have never owned or held a spider morph, so my knowledge was non-existant. of course we only see the worst cases on youtube and other places, but i guess the huge majority of spiders live wonderful, healthy lives.

spiders do have an issue, but they thrive, so i feel okay in looking at them as potential pets/breeders. there are other morphs with far more detrimental issues, and most all breeders know and try not to breed those.

but hot darn are spiders beautiful animals. i'm very thankful to know more about them. 😊

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kimmu

I'm curious, what is the issue with super cinnamons? I ask because I own a pastel super cinnamon who hatched with a pretty big birth defect but didn't think it was an issue with her morph so much as an unfortunate one off. She's thriving in spite of it and is a very beloved pet who will never be bred.

---

This link is very helpful as it shows most if not all of genetic defects
http://www.owalreptiles.com/issues.php



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kxr

This link is very helpful as it shows most if not all of genetic defects
http://www.owalreptiles.com/issues.php



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

great info there. thank you for the link! 😀

I'm really interested in this as well, this was probably the most (IMHO, could be incorrect) unbiased, research-related article I could find. :)

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ns_for_welfare

This part of the above mentioned article bears repeating:

"Disproportionate legislative control may not promote optimum welfare and can have unforeseen consequences. The strength of the herpetocultural industry is in its community of enthusiasts, closely connected by web-based media. It is self-evident from a review of such media that most herpetoculturists care greatly for the health and welfare of their companion animals and/or breeding stock. This aspect of the herpetoculturist community should be supported and used to fuel further research into the welfare consequences of heritable disorders in reptile species, effectively disseminate findings, and improve self-regulation by community leaders."

:gj:

So this gets me curious if anyone has really tried to pair up spider x spider consistently and what their % ratios turn out to be?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There are several breeders who pair spider to spider every year. OWAL does and a few others. As for their results they would have to answer that themselves

I'm really curious about this "all white" snake that died early. I'm not curious to see hatchlings die or come out as slugs but for the reason behind it. I may have to search around for a few emails and just see if I can get any responses?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk