Buggsie's (Ongoing) Road to Recovery - A Rescue Story

Day 14 - Buggsie might actually be a girl.

First, I want to thank everyone for their comments and show of support! It really means a lot and I hope that everyone is doing great! It's amazing that after only two weeks, little Buggsie has made such a turn around! It really shows just how resilient these little guys can be - from day 1 when he could barely move, to now when we can't get him to sit still! He's reached a point where I feel I can finally take a deep breath because he is going to make it!

He's come quite a long way, and yet he has a ways to go. It may not be that apparent in the video, but he is still severely underweight. Back in the day 1 photos, you can see he's sort of flopped over on his side. I think this is a combination of lack of muscle and lack of energy - he was just to weak to hold himself up. While his energy has been coming back with a vengeance, when he actually stops moving for a few seconds I've noticed he still has a tendency to end up on his side. Most notably is when I've just lifted his hide off when getting him from his tub. Does anyone have experience with a snake doing this? If yes, was it something that was corrected and how? I thought maybe having him slither through my hands for a time each day as a sort of 'exercise' might help him build muscle tone.

We've also yet to have a fecal elimination from him, though he has moved urates and peed approximately twice a week.

Now, onto something interesting - Buggsie might actually be a girl. We hadn't previously tried to pop 'him', taking the rescue's word that he was a 'he' because he looked more like a string impersonating a snake than an actual snake. Tonight we decided that - while still not a healthy weight - that he had put on enough padding that a gentle hand would be unlikely to harm him. Nothing popped out. :confusd: Now we're not sure if we were a little to gentle, or if he's actually a girl but after three attempts, nothing that I would categorize as a hemipene came out. While I'm not ready to say for sure 'he' is actually a 'she' right now, it would be interesting. We've decided to wait until Buggsie has filled in a bit better and then check again when we're not so apprehensive about his size.

A conversation came up earlier as to when we'll be satisfied enough with Buggsie's recovery to declare his journey complete. Actual numbers aside, I would love to not be able to feel his little ribs. While I don't think he'll be able to catch up to Terrestria or Sharona (who are by our best estimates a month younger than Buggsie) and comparing him to Frank is just setting yourself up for failure (she is a Sept hatch, as we suspect he is based on the time line), I would like for him to achieve the same body shape they have.

If anyone would like to share their opinion on this matter, I would welcome the input.

I did notice him flopped over like that in the first day pictures. I don't have any particular thoughts on that or experience to add that you haven't already thought of. But in addition to lacking muscle tone, maybe it's also just that he needs a little more padding on him to fill him out to where his body rests in the normal position?
Anyway, I love following his story and I would love to keep seeing photos of Buggsie even if he gets pleasingly plump! It's so nice to see him making progress!

I did have one comment to add about how quickly he went from being limp and listless to having more energy and behaving a little more like he should. This may sound a little out in left field, but I think maybe it isn't too far off the mark.

I do a lot of long distance cycling events - many of them 24 hours or over, sometimes a lot over. You have some short pit stops, and maybe you take naps, but you mostly keep riding straight through. The biggest thing you have to worry about when you do that is fueling yourself. While you're riding, you basically have to keep averaging a certain number of calories per hour (between 200 and 400, depending on your size, how tolerant your stomach is, the weather, lots of things...); not to mention water and electrolytes (primarily sodium - that's the one that will get you into real trouble the fastest). Getting behind on calories is known as "bonking" and it is not fun. Really, if you get behind on any of that stuff (food, water, sodium), you just feel like something limp scraped off the bottom of a boot. No energy, no will. Everything hurts. You might start crying for no reason without even feeling like you're upset, or you might start snapping at people, or you might just not say anything even when people ask you questions. But basically, you feel like Buggsie looked in that first picture.

Needless to say, this is not good and you really, really want to avoid it. People devise all sorts of strategies for keeping track of calories, etc. But occasionally, you run out of food on the bike and it's hotter than you expected and then you take a wrong turn or it turns out to be hillier than you thought, etc, and it takes you longer to reach the next gas station convenience store than you thought, and by the time you get there you're running on empty. But the amazing thing is how much better you feel, and how quickly it can happen, when you finally do get some food in. You still have zero reserves, and if you don't keep eating and drinking as much as you can get down, you're going to be right back to feeling like crap. But just that first little bit makes such a huge difference. The aches and pains go away, you feel like you can enjoy life and look at the scenery again.

Obviously this is different because it's a short term athletic event as opposed to long-term starvation; you can be chubby and still bonk, because your body can't utilize stored fat all that quickly. And it's also different because Buggsie is a snake, not a bicyclist; and because a bicyclist or other endurance athlete does what they're doing by choice and Buggsie didn't have a choice.

But all that is to say, I think I can relate to how quickly and how much better he started feeling once he started eating more. It just makes me all the more glad to see things looking up for him.

wonderful story and rescue. good job and bless your heart! :)

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Originally Posted by SmoothScales

Day 14 - Buggsie might actually be a girl.

Now, onto something interesting - Buggsie might actually be a girl. We hadn't previously tried to pop 'him', taking the rescue's word that he was a 'he' because he looked more like a string impersonating a snake than an actual snake. Tonight we decided that - while still not a healthy weight - that he had put on enough padding that a gentle hand would be unlikely to harm him. Nothing popped out. :confusd: Now we're not sure if we were a little to gentle, or if he's actually a girl but after three attempts, nothing that I would categorize as a hemipene came out. While I'm not ready to say for sure 'he' is actually a 'she' right now, it would be interesting. We've decided to wait until Buggsie has filled in a bit better and then check again when we're not so apprehensive about his size.

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boy or girl, i think u gotta put a hat on it. ;)

when Buggsie gets big and strong enough, it's photoshoot time with a nice, pretty hat. :)

It is so good to hear he/she is doing great. I loved the video you posted! Keep up the amazing work and keep going Buggsie!!

Sent from my SGH-T399N using Tapatalk

just replying because i think i hit the unsubscribe button by accident :snake:

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Originally Posted by SmoothScales

He's come quite a long way, and yet he has a ways to go. It may not be that apparent in the video, but he is still severely underweight. Back in the day 1 photos, you can see he's sort of flopped over on his side. I think this is a combination of lack of muscle and lack of energy - he was just to weak to hold himself up. While his energy has been coming back with a vengeance, when he actually stops moving for a few seconds I've noticed he still has a tendency to end up on his side. Most notably is when I've just lifted his hide off when getting him from his tub. Does anyone have experience with a snake doing this? If yes, was it something that was corrected and how? I thought maybe having him slither through my hands for a time each day as a sort of 'exercise' might help him build muscle tone.

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Could it be that's just how he likes to curl up in his hide? Every so often when I look over at Manasa's tank, it's the top of her back, and not her side that I see blocking the entrance to her hide. I'm still a (relative) newbie though, so just my 2 cents :P

Nonetheless, it's great to see Buggsie's turnaround :gj:

"Day 15 - Buggsie got a mite treatment today." It's been a while since we've found a dead mite in his tub, and even longer since we've found a live one on him, but we continue to treat him and his enclosure because those little pests can be very persistent. Not to mention, their little eggs can remain viable for quite some time.

His treatments will continue until the 2nd week of March, which will give him 6 weeks total. Thus far, we haven't found any on the rest of our collection and have been vigilant about making sure we're not carrying the little buggers from Buggsie to them. [Note: I've gotten far to comfortable with stripping down in the laundry room.]​

Little guy (or girl) is being lively as ever, wrapping himself around my hand and wrist while I was treating him. Afterwards a quick weigh has him at 120 grams. Slow and steady, but winning the race!

An idea occurred to me - I would like to do some comparison photos to his day one documentation pictures. That is, if I can get him to sit still long enough in a similar pose. I would then crop these photos together to show the changes he's undergone thus far. It's only been a short time, so I don't expect there to be a drastic drifference, but it might be informative in a more long term sense.


"Day 16 - Little guy ate again today! He's getting quicker about snapping up his little rat! It was only 15 gram one today, but that is still 12.5% of his body weight. He's gaining pretty well, and started to fill in a little, but still looking quite skinny and hasn't passed a fecal for us yet. Urates this morning, though!" I'd be more concerned about the lack of a solid poop, but it's only been a short while and Ball Pythons can utilize a lot of their food. If anyone needs to be economical about what is waste and what is not, it's this little guy. Plus, we've got some that will go three weeks without pooping. I'll be more concerned if he were up to a healthy weight and going longer than Blackout without passing something more than urates. This does make me think about advice new people get sometimes about feeding schedule. I know most of us don't do this, but I have seen the advice given on these very boards when the question was asked - How often? - and the answer was to feed, then wait for a poop, then feed, etc. I had commented at the time that poor Blackout would only get to eat once a month on that type of thought process, but Buggsie....Well, I just hope that there isn't a BP out there somewhere in a similar situation because its owner got that piece of advice.
https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...d4&oe=576F8A67


"Day 16 - Little guy wrapped around my hand while his tub was being cleaned and tightened up. It was like wearing a fancy snake bracelet. You can still see the damaged spot in his neck stripe, but it's not as noticeable [as pre-shed]. I'm sure in a few more sheds, you'll hardly be able to tell!" Live and unharmed is the best kind of jewelry, imo. :oops: There's a few new scales in the damaged area, which is a good start! It may take 2, or 5, or 10 sheds, but I'm sure the area will fill in and probably not even be distinguishable.
https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...70&oe=5726E927

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Originally Posted by das_nooblet

Could it be that's just how he likes to curl up in his hide?

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It's possible that he curls up that way because it's comfortable, but I really don't think so. I was using the hide as an example, because these days that's the place I can find him sitting still. When he's out and about, he does it as well once he stops moving for a moment. He'll be on the cleaning tray and then be on his side. Almost like a ship taking on water will start listing. I do understand, though, as Mr. Bubbles has scared the bejeezus out of me on multiple occasions - check his tub only to find him in a loose whirl on his side. My first thought is usually f#*@! Reach in and touch him, and his head pops up, like 'What?' I'm sure he does it on purpose to try to give me a heart attack. But Bubbles only pulls this stunt once a month or so, so I'm sure with him he's just being lazy, or comfortable, or a jerk (trying to scare me) and that it's not an issue with muscle weakness.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ax01

boy or girl, i think u gotta put a hat on it. ;)

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Careful, someone might think you're obsessed with snakes in hats! :rofl: I need to make another visit to Toys R Us. Maybe the Barbie isle?

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Originally Posted by Coluber42

But in addition to lacking muscle tone, maybe it's also just that he needs a little more padding on him to fill him out to where his body rests in the normal position?

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This is an excellent point! While I have no plans to start a 'snake exercise' program anytime soon - he needs his energy for other things right now - once he gets up to a healthy weight, the issue may resolve itself.

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Originally Posted by Coluber42

you can be chubby and still bonk

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And Buggsie was far from chubby! Thank you for this explanation/insight. It's very likely that Buggsie had depleted his reserves by the time he arrived here. The little mouse pinks he had eaten at the rescue were probably just enough to keep him alive. The turn around has been fantastic! From barely moving to a slithering, wriggly worm that you'd be hard pressed to find sitting still. Well, he's sitting still right now because he's busy digesting his little rat. Even his feeding is the difference between night and day. His first meal with us, he had to be left alone with the pink for a while before we heard it squeal. Today, as soon as I popped the lid of his tub and he started smelling the rat, he was poking his head out of the hide and his tongue was flipping. I'm so proud of him. :D

Just love to read about your wonderful job with Buggsie. There is already an amazing improvement, and I'm sure in my heart that she'll be thriving for you.

"Day 19 - A little out of focus tongue action. He came in at 118 grams today, which is a small loss, but I cant' even be disappointed because he's so much more lively and active. Plus, he left a pretty large urate for me to clean this morning. Still no fecal, though." Little guy had actually moved his hide to get away from the urate. It was about the size of a nickle, and kinda smooshed from the hide moving over top of it. Made me laugh a little, even though it meant his hide needed cleaned. Today was mite treatment day anyway, so it was going to get wiped down either way.
https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e3&oe=576BFAD2


"Day 19 - Hard to tell in this picture (stupid cell phone!) but he's going a little pink in the belly. Could we be looking at a second shed so soon?" As I suspected, the flash on my phone pretty much overpowered the slight pink he's showing, but it's very slight and uniform across his belly. I clean every time there's even a slight mess, and his UTH is regulated with a thermostat and monitored via AcuRite indoor/outdoor thermometer as well as getting checked with a IR heat gun, so I have no reason to think it's something else. Although Mr. Bubbles and Blackout freak me out just about every single time they go into shed because their bellies are so white that them going pink for shed is a startling contrast to their usual. I have a minor melt down for 10 minutes or so, then realize that they're both actually fine after having bothered them and poked them and readjusted their whole tub. :rolleyes: I'm a worrier, I guess! Buggsie is probably a few sheds behind for his age due to lack of food anyway. And as you can see in the picture, there's still a small gap between his scales (no where near how it was, though!) so maybe it will fix itself this time around.
https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...54&oe=57331B7E



"Day 19 - A bit of slither time on the carpet. I thought he might enjoy having a little 'free range' slithering for a few moments. There was certainly lots of tongue action while he moved around." Buggsie was being quite active and really didn't want to sit still, so I thought he might enjoy some time where I wasn't restricting him to my hands, or the cleaning tray. I let him have his way for 5 minutes or so - not to long, I know, but I don't want him expending all his energy running around when he needs it for growing and gaining weight!
https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...bb&oe=575ED245



"Day 19 - Still looking pointy, but so much better! He's [also] started to look a bit wider along his belly." He's started looking more like an underfed snake and less like a half starved little noodle. His spine is still pretty noticeable, but much less prominent. I'm not sure if slow and steady would be everyone's choice in trying to put weight on a snake, but he was so weak when he arrived that even the big pink he got on day two was difficult for him to constrict. Personally, I'm of the opinion that the slow gain would be healthier in the long run over blowing him up with bigger meals. He has still been getting a meal that is 10-15% of his body weight, his body weight is just so low that the meals are really tiny. His last two meals tipped the scales into fuzzy sizes and I'm hoping in another meal or two he'll be strong enough (and big enough) to move up to pups.
https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...9c&oe=57683C9C



"Day 19 - He stopped moving for a moment, and I held my breath. It was only for a moment, but I didn't see the slow list to the side that he's previously shown. Things are looking up!" And then he was off again! But that one moment of him sitting still and not starting to flop over really made me smile. Maybe, as Coluber suggested, he just needs some extra padding to put everything back in place. He certainly looked like he had a bit wider of a 'base' today while he was exploring! :D
https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...40&oe=5731EDBC



"Day 19 - He's got some strength in his squeeze these days! He certainly wasn't to cooperative with today's mite treatment!" He was quite the little wiggle worm, in fact. But when applying the treatment, instead of spraying on the animal and potentially getting it on their face or in their eyes, we spray a paper towel and then wipe down the snake, running it over them and letting them crawl over it for their underside. It seems less stressful for them, based on how the snake reacts and you can be sure the spray isn't getting anywhere it doesn't belong. We use Reptile Relief on the animal, and PAM to treat the tub and hide. The PAM is good for 30 days per application, but I wipe down the top edge of the tub at the same time Buggsie gets treated and then give ample time for any fumes to dissipate before he's placed back in. It's been more than a week since the last time I found mites (dead or alive) on him or in his tub. While I like to hope that they've all been eliminated, treatments will continue until the 2nd week of March. Of course, any mites that get seen will push this back, but I can be hopeful that Buggsie's mite days are over!
https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e3&oe=57265094



"Day 19 - Throw back to Day 1 photo that never got shared. From this angle, you can see just how prominent his spine was. I almost want to cry just looking at it, but he's looking quite a bit better now! Tomorrow is feeding day, and Buggsie has been taking those little rat fuzzies with a fervor!" It's still amazing to see the changes he's undergone in such a short amount of time. It was scary when he first showed up and didn't want to move. I was afraid I would break something every time I picked him up! Maybe he's so wiggly now because he's making up for lost time. ;) I'm still very careful because while you can't see his ribs, you can still feel them. I still need to take comparison photos, and I've been thinking of doing an update video for him maybe once a week, even if it's just him slithering around, showing off how much energy he's got.
https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e8&oe=57244597




He's making progress, moving forward one baby step at a time.

go buggsie! :salute: