How do you feed Your Ball Python?

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Marla,

Are your concerns about feeding on loose substrate from personal experience with ball pythons or something you read or were told?

I'd like to try and discuss this without things getting heated :D. I have a lot of experience feeding on all different kinds of substrates (I'm currently using sani-chips) and also know for fact that many large ball python collections are kept on aspen and cypress mulch and thousands (at least) of ball pythons are fed on those substrates each year without incident. I think that a healthy mind can certainly imagine all kinds of horrible scenarios happening when feeding this way, but the reality is that in practice those things rarely ever happen.

-adam

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Some of each, actually. While debating can be fun, I'm not really in a mood for it right now, so suffice it to say that this, like most aspects of reptile husbandry, comes under the category of "whatever works best for both the animal and the keeper" for me. You'll notice in my original post, what I said was that I would recommend a certain approach, not that it was required or the only appropriate way to do it.

I don't think there are a lot of absolutes in this, just things that tend to work out better for more people and animals than other things. Can you keep a ball python alive without providing supplemental heat? Depending on ambient temps and general health, yes, possibly for many years. Can you feed live and/or on loose substrate without a single negative consequence? Again, yes, possibly for many years. Can you keep a ball alive without thermometer, hygrometer, thermostat, etc.? Yes, possibly for many years. Can you keep a ball in the same enclosure with one or more other reptiles? Yes, possibly for many years. Can you keep a ball without hides or on pine or with visible light 24/7 or with irregular water changes or spot-cleaning only? Again, sure, and possibly for many years. Can you keep a ball with one or more heat rocks or unmonitored heat sources? Yes, possibly for many years.

Basically, I work out what works for me, taking into account information from other keepers and sources like the Ball Python Manual, and I observe what seems to work for my snakes. If it works for me and my snakes, I do that until I find an approach that works better, and I offer my experience and first- and second-hand acquired information to other keepers to use or discard as works for them.

Well said Marla!

I feed my bp in tank (I have newspaper substrate), never had any problems.

As far as setting up a routine, that's a good idea. After thawing out the rodent, I bring it into the "snake's room" to heat it up under a heat lamp. As soon as I take that stinky rat out of the bag, my bp smells it and starts cruising his cage like crazy, flicking his tongue, looking for the food. As soon as I lower the rat into the tank, he strikes within seconds.

For people with mulitple snakes and not time to take each out and feed them it makes sense. My feeling on this is since i have only 1, i have the time to take the extra(maybe not to needed) saftey steps so that it makes me feel better about keeping her safe. Granted that most of you feel that feeding them in their cage and on loose substrate is not really an issure. Since i have the time to do this, i just feel "better safe then sorry"

Marla,

I definitely agree with you as far as there being many ways to be successful keeping these animals, I was just asking because in your first post on the thread you said:

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Originally Posted by Marla

If you have a loose substrate or more than one animal in the enclosure (I know, not recommended, but people do it), then I highly recommend feeding outside the enclosure.

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After reading that statement it made me wonder if you felt strongly enough to "highly recommend" feeding outside of the enclosure due to a mishap from personal experience or just opinion? Counting my own collection as well as the sizable collections of many of the larger ball python breeders that I've discussed this topic with, I don't have any incidents to share. I thought that an actual documented feeding accident on "loose substrate" would have been a valuable addition to this thread. I apologize if my questions was taken the wrong way.

It's too bad that you're not in the mood to discuss this further, your input is always valuable and appreciated.

-adam

here is my 2 cents on this. I have my bp on aspen because I like the way it looks. I feed in the tank, but before I feed him I lay newspaper down to avoid him ingesting any substrate. I don't know if he knows newspaper=feeding time but it seems like it to me. As soon as I lay the newspaper down he will start cruising the tank flicking his tongue almost like he knows whats coming. But then agin he just might be cruising and flicking because of the new introduction to his enclosure.

-Troy

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Marla,

I definitely agree with you as far as there being many ways to be successful keeping these animals, I was just asking because in your first post on the thread you said:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marla

If you have a loose substrate or more than one animal in the enclosure (I know, not recommended, but people do it), then I highly recommend feeding outside the enclosure.

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After reading that statement it made me wonder if you felt strongly enough to "highly recommend" feeding outside of the enclosure due to a mishap from personal experience or just opinion? Counting my own collection as well as the sizable collections of many of the larger ball python breeders that I've discussed this topic with, I don't have any incidents to share. I thought that an actual documented feeding accident on "loose substrate" would have been a valuable addition to this thread. I apologize if my questions was taken the wrong way.

It's too bad that you're not in the mood to discuss this further, your input is always valuable and appreciated.

-adam

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I appreciate your assessment of my input. I'm just really tight on time right now (aren't we all?) and trying to still participate on the site because I enjoy it. To answer your question, I have never fed multiple animals in the same enclosure (though I did keep a pair of clutchmates in the same enclosure for a week or so when they first arrived), and the only time I've used a loose substrate was the brief corn cob usage discussed elsewhere when one of my snakes came with it in the enclosure.

However, a friend of mine had a young male bp kept on a non-pine wood substrate (I don't know which but it was dark and somewhat like playground surface, not shavings) and had a feeding-related incident that resulted in an awful abcess in the poor baby's mouth and he wouldn't eat for months afterward -- despite prompt vet attention. Another friend had a bci that got impacted, and the vet's best guess was that it was eating chips/shavings along with the rodents when it ate and they were essentially filling pockets or folds in the intestine.

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Originally Posted by Marla

To answer your question, I have never fed multiple animals in the same enclosure (though I did keep a pair of clutchmates in the same enclosure for a week or so when they first arrived), and the only time I've used a loose substrate was the brief corn cob usage discussed elsewhere when one of my snakes came with it in the enclosure.

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I don't think it was me that asked about feeding multiple animals in the same enclosure. I personally feel that housing (let alone feeding) more than one animal per enclosure is irresponsible and careless no matter what the circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Marla

However, a friend of mine had a young male bp kept on a non-pine wood substrate (I don't know which but it was dark and somewhat like playground surface, not shavings) and had a feeding-related incident that resulted in an awful abcess in the poor baby's mouth and he wouldn't eat for months afterward -- despite prompt vet attention.

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Dark wood substrate? Sounds like something from a home and garden center maybe? Did the vet comfirm that the abcess was in fact from the substrate? I've seen ball pythons kept on newspaper develop abcesses inside of their mouths, so the link between the substrate and the injury could have been more assumption than fact.

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Originally Posted by Marla

Another friend had a bci that got impacted, and the vet's best guess was that it was eating chips/shavings along with the rodents when it ate and they were essentially filling pockets or folds in the intestine.

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Best guess? So a necropsy wasn't done on the animal? How was the vet even sure that the snake was impacted? Sounds like the vet is a little fishy on this one, maybe blaming the substrate for something that he/she didn't have the first clue about. What were the snakes symptoms that led the vet to believe that it was an impaction?

I have to be a little skeptical with stories like these. There are so many snakes (not just ball pythons) being kept in tremendous numbers by professional breeders and being fed on aspen and cypress mulch. If impaction/accidental ingestion was even as remotely possible as many people are led to believe, I am sure the pro's would find an alternative. Personally, I feel that feeding on these substrates is safe.

On a side note Marla, between your experiences with live feeding injuries, injuries from feeding on loose substrates, and your recent lost snake, I feel extremely blessed that I've been able to keep these animals for 25 years without similar problems. Your continued enthusiam for keeping ball pythons in light of your experiences is definitely an inspiration! Thank you for taking the time during this very busy week to share.

-adam