Controversy is great

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I don't care what he feeds his snake. What do you think his thoughts were in POSTING PICTURES of his snake eating a pied ball python?

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I can't speak for what his thoughts were.

It has been established that it was not live, and that he does feed his animals still born or otherwise euthanized ball pythons that have been donated to him.

At this point, I'm ASSuming that he may be posting pics because so many people have had a collective rectal prolapse over him doing so. Then again, maybe not...

When the ball python community gets off their soapbox and expresses the same level of angst over the gratuitous pics of rats and mice being fed to ball pythons on the internet, then I'll stop smiling about this.

While we're at it, we spend pages upon pages attacking someone over his insistence that only f/t prey should be fed to pet snakes and that doing otherwise is inhumane and barbaric. Weeks later several of those same defenders of the right to feed snakes live mammalian prey go ape shib over the FALSE idea that some guy is feeding live ball pythons to his king cobra.

Actually, I take that back...maybe I've figured out what he was thinking...;)

I don't even know who this person is. I'm not a follower of instagram and have not seen these pictures myself nor do I wish to. I've always believed that a person should feed their animals whatever gets them eating and keeps them healthy and their natural prey is quite often the best for them. But I not a fan of posting feeding pictures or videos no matter what the animal is being fed whether it's mice, rats, snakes, lizards gerbils or whatever. Yes, you could argue that some of these are educational and instructive but the overwhelming majority of feeding videos that I've seen posted on youtube or elsewhere were solely for the enjoyment of watching an animal die. These are the kinds of videos posted by people who think that C0ck fights are a lot of fun and dog fighting is a wonderful sport. In short, the types of people who should not be keeping animals of any kind.

I'm not claiming that the person posting these videos has sunk to that sort of depravity, if he's not feeding a live piebald (as was implied in the first post) to his cobra but is instead putting an already dead animal to a use other than throwing it out and wasting it, then I see nothing wrong with that. But WHY POST A VIDEO OF IT?

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I don't even know who this person is. I'm not a follower of instagram and have not seen these pictures myself nor do I wish to. I've always believed that a person should feed their animals whatever gets them eating and keeps them healthy and their natural prey is quite often the best for them. But I not a fan of posting feeding pictures or videos no matter what the animal is being fed whether it's mice, rats, snakes, lizards gerbils or whatever. Yes, you could argue that some of these are educational and instructive but the overwhelming majority of feeding videos that I've seen posted on youtube or elsewhere were solely for the enjoyment of watching an animal die. These are the kinds of videos posted by people who think that :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: fights are a lot of fun and dog fighting is a wonderful sport. In short, the types of people who should not be keeping animals of any kind.

I'm not claiming that the person posting these videos has sunk to that sort of depravity, if he's not feeding a live piebald (as was implied in the first post) to his cobra but is instead putting an already dead animal to a use other than throwing it out and wasting it, then I see nothing wrong with that. But WHY POST A VIDEO OF IT?

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The snake is dead...it was not alive. So this was not a snuff video of any sort.

He is also not a serial poster of these types of videos.

Again Mark, the over-reaction to this speaks more volumes than the actual event itself...

As an aside, I plan on asking the same question (WHY POST A VIDEO OF IT?) to everyone who posts a video or a pic of their ball python eating a F/T rat or mouse. I am 100% in agreement with you on questioning the need for such pics/vids:gj:

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

The snake is dead...it was not alive. So this was not a snuff video of any sort.

He is also not a serial poster of these types of videos.

Again Mark, the over-reaction to this speaks more volumes than the actual event itself...

As an aside, I plan on asking the same question (WHY POST A VIDEO OF IT?) to everyone who posts a video or a pic of their ball python eating a F/T rat or mouse. I am 100% in agreement with you on questioning the need for such pics/vids:gj:

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None of that was clear according to the first post in this thread.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

None of that was clear according to the first post in this thread.

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No.

It was not.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

When the ball python community gets off their soapbox and expresses the same level of angst over the gratuitous pics of rats and mice being fed to ball pythons on the internet, then I'll stop smiling about this.

While we're at it, we spend pages upon pages attacking someone over his insistence that only f/t prey should be fed to pet snakes and that doing otherwise is inhumane and barbaric. Weeks later several of those same defenders of the right to feed snakes live mammalian prey go ape shib over the FALSE idea that some guy is feeding live ball pythons to his king cobra.

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It amazes me how these same people think that somehow a dead ball python feels more pain than that of a living rat. Dead meat doesn't suffer, regardless of whether it's a rat, cow, snake, or cat. Whether an animal needs to be given live food is the important subject of the debate, and one that all too often gets overlooked over one's prejudice for a specific species.
I gave up debating the moral aspect of live feeding a long time ago. The reptile keeping community doesn't always attract the brightest or logical bunch, and, as you said, a lot of people will get a bug up their butt if you even mention that rats suffer when a BP constricts it.
I will admit though - the number of O. hannah and even king snake keepers who feed live ball pythons to their snakes just to film it and get a kick out of pissing off ball python keepers is too high as it is, and is probably the reason why these ASSumptions are made. Whether it's this special group of trolls, or live rats to a ball python, reptile keepers need to reevaluate why they feed live vertebrates as food and if it's really necessary or ethical out of respect for that prey animal. (Insects to insectivores are another story.)

The "video" is a short 16 second max shot of him pulling it towards a hide and the cobra grabbing on, no music playing, no words no cheering or anything like that. His reasoning for posting feeding pictures/videos (which are far and few between), which he has stated in some of his posts (not agreeing or disagreeing with either side here, just stating what he posted), was that he likes to show all aspects of keeping certain animals, and not edit out the "bad", so people can make educated decisions on aquiring certain animals and what lenghts you sometimes have to go through when caring for said animal. He seems to deal with some more exotic species, at the shop/breeder he works at, and many at times are imports that will not accept F/T or even rodents at all. I think the way the OP made the initial statement made it come a cross a lot worse than it really is.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

None of that was clear according to the first post in this thread.

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Yeah that's my mistake. I thought that the last two feeding videos were of live snakes. Since they happened to be morphs. I thought/ wanted to find out if it was common for people to sped extra cash on a ball python morph to sort of bash ball pythons. Like it was to say " look I have a real snake, your ball python is a children's pet that is easily consumed by an alpha snake. You like colors and looks while I like my snakes being able to eat other snakes and being big and bad." That's what I thought the case was. Jclaiborn helped to specify that this was not the case and upon further inspection of his account (several months of photos back) we can see that he actually does love and care for animals. It's mostly education and maybe to show off his snake, not it eating other snakes but the fact that he has a king cobra. Who wouldn't show off a pet cobra?



Guys, I already said this, but again I am sorry. I jumped the gun on this and didn't realize what the case was. I was trying to discover if it was common to feed animals as a way of bashing other kinds of animals. I should have done full research into the account in the first place.
Also, it seems that the original purpose of this thread has been misinterpreted by some. Whether that is my own fault for not being clear enough(?) or not, I simply was inquiring whether it was a common practice to take one animal and post it getting eaten by another in an attempt to make a point. Remember when world of ball pythons was hacked? It said something like "reproducing animals purely based on aesthetics is disgusting. All creatures are equal." I don't know if it was that kind of thing or what. It's clear that I was wrong though. I wasn't starting yet another live vs f/t thread. Or a "how dare this person feed a ball python to a snake that eats mostly snakes!" thread.


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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

...he likes to show all aspects of keeping certain animals, and not edit out the "bad", so people can make educated decisions on aquiring certain animals and what lenghts you sometimes have to go through when caring for said animal.

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There's nothing wrong with that. It's no different, really, than telling aspiring breeders that they have to be mentally prepared to cull deformed babies, or that breeding a female has risks and some do end up dying despite your best efforts.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

There's nothing wrong with that. It's no different, really, than telling aspiring breeders that they have to be mentally prepared to cull deformed babies, or that breeding a female has risks and some do end up dying despite your best efforts.

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I couldn't agree more!