How can a male snake be a "female maker" or "male maker"?

I have been thinking about this and there is just no good explanation for the male being either a "male maker" or a "female maker" without the allele for B/CG causing failure in the W or Z respectively.

I went on iHerp, the only tracking site I know of, and found two coral glow outcross (meaning not breeding for a super coral glow), but the outcome of the clutch was not available.

When a "male maker" or "female maker" is bred to a normal, what is the sex ratio of ALL of the litter? Is it near 50/50 or is it gender heavy in favor of the sex of the b/cgs?

Have the normal females been bred to other snakes? Are the ratios similar? Has the male been bred to other normal females with similar ratios?

Where are we actually getting the data for this "male/female maker"? How many breedings are required before one can say it's a gender maker, not just luck of the draw on one clutch?


Makes me want to go back to school so I can do a Masters Thesis on this.....

I've produced clutches from banana females, a male maker banana and a female maker banana (that I produced myself from one of my banana females). I haven't produced a lot of clutches but probably 15 clutches or so overall. Without checking my records I've produced 4 clutches from my two females and the sex ratios have been normal and about half were bananas. Out of an estimated 10 clutches from my male maker and female maker only 3 babies have broken the male maker/female maker rules. If you breed a male maker banana male to any female the overall sex ratio is normal but all the males are bananas and all the females are non-bananas. The opposite is true from a female maker. I've talked with other breeders and they all seem to report the same thing.

The information is out there. The Banana/Coral Glow has been around for over 10 years. I know Kevin had em at least as early as 2002. Sad to think that the information was just recently released about the sex-link issue. But I guess it's not surprising knowing how long the spider issue took to come to light.

I have no personal experience, but I have friends who have bred them and talked to many breeders who have. Also many reports are scattered across the internet. So with the information available....

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Originally Posted by kaitala

When a "male maker" or "female maker" is bred to a normal, what is the sex ratio of ALL of the litter? Is it near 50/50 or is it gender heavy in favor of the sex of the b/cgs?

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sex ratio is normal, just with say a male maker, the males will be bananas most of the time thus the non-bananas will mostly be female.

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Originally Posted by kaitala

Where are we actually getting the data for this "male/female maker"? How many breedings are required before one can say it's a gender maker, not just luck of the draw on one clutch?

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If the male banana came from a male banana, it is a male maker
If the male banana came from a female banana, it is a female maker
If you produce a female banana from a female banana, male maker, or female maker, it will produce as expected like any other gene.

That has been proven over and over through many breedings. No proving out needed, just need to know what parent the gene came from. Someone who verbally shared some numbers with me in the past was brock wagner, but every banana breeding has confirmed the above statement that I have seen.

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Originally Posted by Dave Green

I've produced clutches from banana females, a male maker banana and a female maker banana (that I produced myself from one of my banana females). I haven't produced a lot of clutches but probably 15 clutches or so overall. Without checking my records I've produced 4 clutches from my two females and the sex ratios have been normal and about half were bananas. Out of an estimated 10 clutches from my male maker and female maker only 3 babies have broken the male maker/female maker rules. If you breed a male maker banana male to any female the overall sex ratio is normal but all the males are bananas and all the females are non-bananas. The opposite is true from a female maker. I've talked with other breeders and they all seem to report the same thing.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

If the male banana came from a male banana, it is a male maker
If the male banana came from a female banana, it is a female maker
If you produce a female banana from a female banana, male maker, or female maker, it will produce as expected like any other gene.

That has been proven over and over through many breedings. No proving out needed, just need to know what parent the gene came from. Someone who verbally shared some numbers with me in the past was brock wagner, but every banana breeding has confirmed the above statement that I have seen.

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Now the confusion grows, just when I thought I was starting to get it!

Dave said he produced his male-makers and female-makers *from his banana females*. So that shoots down the theory that "if a male banana came from a female banana, it is a female maker".

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Originally Posted by kaitala

Now the confusion grows, just when I thought I was starting to get it!

Dave said he produced his male-makers and female-makers *from his banana females*. So that shoots down the theory that "if a male banana came from a female banana, it is a female maker".

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You're misintrepting what Dave said. He said that he has produced clutches from all three kinds of bananas - female bananas, male-maker male bananas, and female-maker male bananas. He then added that the female-maker male banana is one he produced himself from his own female banana.

What about the super banana... does it show weird sex ratios as well?

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Originally Posted by asasix

What about the super banana... does it show weird sex ratios as well?

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Being produced last year, I haven't seen any clutch data from a super yet, but I am very interested in what they will produce.

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Originally Posted by kaitala

Dave said he produced his male-makers and female-makers *from his banana females*. So that shoots down the theory that "if a male banana came from a female banana, it is a female maker".

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I wouldn't call it a theory at this point, its pretty much proven.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

You're misintrepting what Dave said. He said that he has produced clutches from all three kinds of bananas - female bananas, male-maker male bananas, and female-maker male bananas. He then added that the female-maker male banana is one he produced himself from his own female banana.

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Correct, my male maker banana was produced from a male banana. Sorry for any confusion.