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Ugh..help?

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  • 12-09-2014, 03:19 PM
    calmolly1
    Re: Ugh..help?
    I have a farm too but I'm a softie. I've had to despatch various animals as quickly and humanely as possible. I hate every second of it. But it's one kindness we can do by making it as fast and painless as possible. I happen to agree with you Foolish1 about Co2...it wasn't quick. Painless I guess but I still hated it


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  • 12-09-2014, 03:20 PM
    Stewart_Reptiles
    Re: Ugh..help?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Foolish1 View Post
    If c02 was humane. We would use it on death row inmates.

    Quoted from other forums
    One of the main objections to gas chambers in general is that the person being executed doesn't cooperate (which really shouldn't be a surprise). If the person being executed would breathe normally, or even close to it, the currently used methods are painless and humane. What happens instead is that the victim struggles painfully not to breathe and ends up thrashing around and gasping for breath. I've never watched a gas chamber execution (and have no desire to do so) but from what I've read they are quite gruesome to watch. It's definitely not a quick and painless death in practice.

    Carbon monoxide was one of the gases used by the Nazis in WWII. It is currently used in some animal shelters, but there is a push by animal activists to ban gas chambers for animal euthanasia which is causing a decline in their use.

    CO2 ??? What inhumane idiot suggested that? Of course the animals go nuts. Their entire respiratory system is telling them that they are dying. They die frantic and in pain. CO is, as the OP suggest the humane gas. Or N2. I can't help but wonder if somewhere down the line somebody with less than useful knowledge in physiology missed the significant distinction.

    In all seriousness, I would be wanting a talk with the ethics committee overseeing the research.

    There have been threads before on this, and generally N2 seems about as humane as you could get. A gradual increase in concentration over time might avoid the worst issues. Given this is GQ I will grit my teeth and refrain from further comment on executions.

    Pjen wrote: "The unspoken rule is that the person must be aware of what is happening and suffer enough to satisfy death penalty proponents, but not so much that it offends death penalty opponents."



    This is me talking now. Again I don't wish to derail or offend. I love chemicals and physics and biology. C02 is cruel.

    And there we go comparing apple to oranges last time I check the national veterinary association was not in charge of death row inmates????

    Comparing humans to animals in this case just made you lose the very little newbie's credibility you had ;)
  • 12-09-2014, 03:22 PM
    Foolish1
    I don't bludgeon them against a wall. I know how to quickly snap their neck with a fast precise motion. I feel like we are attacking each other for no reason. People don't like snake keepers because of me? That's not quite the moderator response. Do you know me? Do you know how passionate I am about animals and predators who are cast bad judgment. I don't run a shelter for Wolf dogs or take people's snakes they can't care for. That wouldn't be me. I don't go around my town and talk with locals every day about reptiles. I don't change people's minds and lives by letting them experience my best friends. That isn't me. Come on. Let's not get personal. I called you hun as a way like I would call someone bud, or darling. Just my way of speaking. Again no offense was intended.
  • 12-09-2014, 03:23 PM
    Foolish1
    Humanely means giving human characteristics to other things and try to treat them how we would treat a fellow human. Correct?
  • 12-09-2014, 03:27 PM
    Foolish1
    Make a nitrogen chamber if you want to be humane. Hell make an oxygen chamber. C02 is cheap and easy. That's why they consider it humane. The nva wouldn't recommend something that costs them more money.
  • 12-09-2014, 03:30 PM
    Foolish1
    Also back to thread. OP mentioned they were getting a live one today. Clean your babies cage first. If it smells at all like her she won't want to eat. Their own smell shuts off their feeding drive. If they can smelm themselves others can smell them and that means they are vulnerable. They are at their most defenseless eating. Try to make her feel as safe as possible.
  • 12-09-2014, 03:51 PM
    Foolish1
    Controlled atmosphere killing (CAK) or controlled atmosphere stunning (CAS) is a method for slaughtering animals such as chickens by placing the animals in a container in which the atmosphere lacks oxygen and consists of an asphyxiant gas (one or more of argon, nitrogen or carbon dioxide), causing the animals to lose consciousness. Argon and nitrogen are important components of a gassing process which seem to cause no pain, and for this reason many consider some types of controlled atmosphere killing more humane than other methods of killing.[8][9] If carbon dioxide is used, controlled atmosphere killing is not the same as inert gas asphyxia, because carbon dioxide at high concentrations (above 5%) is not biologically inert, but rather is toxic and also produces initial distress in a number of animals species.

    ​I bolded the imporant parts. I am done now. There really is nothing to discuss the science is there. Sorry to the original poster and the community if I derailed the thread. I gave my advice and was attacked.
  • 12-09-2014, 06:24 PM
    Reed12321
    Re: Ugh..help?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
    I would not trust either breeder that would say if it gets down to x weight you need to assist....it's not about the weight it's about a overall condition of the animal.

    At least he is right about one thing assisting is the VERY last resort, you do not assist an animal that knows how to eat you provide it with proper husbandry and the right food even if that means live.

    BTW how is your husbandry?

    I painstakingly agonize over the husbandry. I lose sleep at night because I worry that my husbandry is not up to par. I wake up multiple times per night to check the conditions of the tanks. I'm super anal about the way I care for my snakes and so far it has really paid off for one of them. He shed in one solid piece, he eats every time I offer him food, and he acts like a typical BP. I did buy a live mouse, i cleaned the tank and everything in it so that nothing smelled like the snake's pee or poop, and I am planning on dropping the live mouse in there and watching it so that the snake doesn't get hurt.
  • 12-09-2014, 06:28 PM
    Reed12321
    Re: Ugh..help?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Foolish1 View Post
    Also back to thread. OP mentioned they were getting a live one today. Clean your babies cage first. If it smells at all like her she won't want to eat. Their own smell shuts off their feeding drive. If they can smelm themselves others can smell them and that means they are vulnerable. They are at their most defenseless eating. Try to make her feel as safe as possible.

    I did this. Thank you!
  • 12-09-2014, 06:35 PM
    Foolish1
    I like to cover the tub so they feel like nobody can see them when they are vulnerable. They can't do a thing while eating to protect themselves. The need to feel secure. Hope it all works out for you. I read somewhere removing them from their cage for a half hour. Dropping food in then putting them back in stimulates feeding also. Basically they go, who's in my house! Then attack. The towel covering, and clean house broke my 3 weeks baby's no eat strike. Best of luck.
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