Is Nix necessary?

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Hmm change of tune there now it is ok not to follow the instructions. I am not hysterical I am saying it is toxic and follow the instructions. For the record bleach is not a suspected human Carcenogen but it still requires respect two years ago a student locally was killed by a hazardous decomposition of household bleach. Chlorine gas is bad for you. All chemicals are dangerous if not used as directed.

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Agreed, even a simple mixture of ammonia and bleach creates toxic fumes that can put a grown man down... Permanently!!!

Nope no change of tune. I do use it as the package says. What I am saying is your suggestions on how to follow the directions are based on conjecture and are extreme (Tyvek? Really? How about a full biohazard suit?). You have never used it or seen it used. Actually I never meant to sound like it's harmless, just no more harmful than things we use every day. I agree it should be respected. As for the OPer's question, no it's not necessary to treat the snake if you are using PAM. My thinking is that treating the snake (Dawn soak or Reptile Relief, not NIX and NEVER PAM) probably gives it some immediate relief instead of waiting for the mites to crawl off and be killed by the PAM residue. It has to be uncomfortable to have them sucking their blood.

I am trained to teach chemical safety, and do. I have read the instructions and the msds sheets from Coulston. That is enough, I don't need to use it past this, all the needed information is there. Regular use of a chemical doesn't mean you can use if correctly. The fact that someone doesn't have any symptoms showing after ten years doesn't mean they are free and clear. Cancer is a sneaky disorder.

WHY TAKE RISKS ?

It is a hazard from skin absorption, simple precautions are easy.

Gloves to be sure, eye shields would be recommended (always are for all chemicals), if you get any on your clothes it would be absorbed to your skin, so tyvek or waterproof tyvek 'sleeves' would likely be fine too.

All I have suggested is treat it as toxic. Plan for the worst, if it gets on your skin you will get cancer, deformaties, and sexual development problems. This simple change of attitude will keep the user safe.


Overkill maybe... maybe not. I have watched lots of chemicals start as non toxic and be reclassified and reclassified as end users have higher and higher amounts of the same health issue. Permethrin is under the microscope now there are possibilities of cancer and of endocrine issues. It is recommended not to be used around children as phenols long have been known as having this issue. The side effect of feminization of men is enough for me to treat all endocrine effecting chemicals with caution.


On a side note is is so odd to watch the arguments about pine/cedar and then see the same people suggest regular preventative treatments with P-A-M. Why not use cedar? As it has less phenols than what they are already using. 3-Phenoxybenzyl alcohol breaks down to 3,4-Dihydroxybenzoate and phenol.

Personally I avoid phenols and phenol compounds full stop. I don't think using things rich in phenols is a good idea around reptiles, cedar is not a healthy product for reptiles and using products that have the same toxic compounds as it seem to fall under that same caution.

I have never had mites in my personal collection and in over 200 rescues only one had mites. We used hard work method of treatment. Isolation with diatomaceous earth and regular cleanings of the isolation tub and snake soaking with a drop of soap. After the third day, no mites or mite eggs could be seen we continued this for a number of times further but never saw another mite after the third day. Isolation was maintained for 30 days and quarantine until a forever home was found.

I believe a collection should be mite free. This means the introduction of new snakes is the only vector of infestation so treatment of a single animal or small numbers is not hard with the traditional methods. If a whole collection is infested it should stand as a warning that the quarantine methods have failed completely. There should be no need for 'preventative' treatments if PAM works as well as everybody claims.