Ridiculed for live feeding

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Originally Posted by Inknsteel

You don't have to try to put a stick in the rat's mouth the second the snake strikes. You should only have to intervene IF the snake grabs the rat in a way that leaves the head free to move, and where the rat's head is facing the right direction to be able to bite. You're creating your own mental justification for causing undue stress and unnecessary suffering to these rats. How many times have you fed live, not "stunned", not pre-killed? Do you think that your snake is really that fragile, that you have to cause the feeder pain and suffering to try to prevent some highly unlikely scenario from happening? What do you think is going to happen to your snake if the rat DOES manage to bite it while being constricted?

I will never understand anyone who thinks "stunning" is ok. You're ok with bashing a rat's head intending to injure, not kill, yet you feel bad when you manage to give the rat a quick end rather than prolonged pain and suffering?

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Well you are entitled to your opinion and your ways of feeding and so am I, I'm sorry I have upset you.

I just switched from f/t to live. and now my snake is getting fatter ALOT faster

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Originally Posted by KMG

I just don't understand how any snake keeper can have a problem feeding live. If they keep snakes and have never had to feed live they are either new to the hobby or have not had enough snakes.

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My my my, we certainly are arrogant, aren't we?

In my world, your understanding is not necessary to anything. I would encourage others to visit my little planet, it's an interesting place where you don't have to give a rat's ass what anyone thinks.

What colour are your blinders? I know it's something opaque, but I'm curious if you only see black and white like your post implies.

As far as ridicule, if you ask for it, as the OP, unintentionally(?) did, then learn. Either don't repeat the action causing you discomfort, or ... well, you'll figure it out. Hopefully.

Getting all butt hurt over the opinions of people you'll never meet and honestly probably don't care about anyway is sort of foolish.

Well I started out Strictly a live feeder until a shortage forced me to either go Quayle or frozen thawed and I will say that I picked frozen thawed and never looked back! I do how ever start all hatchlings on live and switch as soon as each Hatchling will accept the frozen, But recently I had to get some live because the price was so good I could not pass it up but did not miss them little Cute rats getting Squished at all. GO Frozen!:) (My Opinion)
Live a rat Bite free life! lol

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Originally Posted by wilomn

getting all butt hurt over the opinions of people you'll never meet and honestly probably don't care about anyway is sort of foolish.

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amen too this

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Originally Posted by jason_ladouceur

I've been keeping snakes for 20 years. My collection has ranged from just 2 or 3 to almost 300 at any given time. Ive kept everything from corn snakes to retics, and arboreal vipers to gaboon's. So I thinks it's safe to say that I have a fair amount of experience. And honestly I can't recall a single snake in all this time that has refused to eat f/t feeders. I've had animals that for a time I've had no choice but to feed live, so I have done it when necessary. But with a little effort I've never come across one that can't be converted, even many that I have been told will not ever eat f/t. I don't disagree with feeding live. I just don't understand why anyone would she f/t is so much safer and convenient.

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I would be interested in hearing some of your techniques for switching adult bp's who have been fed live over to f/t. Any tricks of the trade you would like to share?

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

I would be interested in hearing some of your techniques for switching adult bp's who have been fed live over to f/t. Any tricks of the trade you would like to share?

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It's been quite a few years since I've needed to since I've only kept a few bp's in recent years and they have all been acquired as babies. But back in the mid 90's I did have a small group of them, and at the time almost all bp's available were wc. I've found though that the most important "trick" is having your husbandry spot on. If the snake feels secure and hungry IME they will eat anything that triggers there feeding sensors. Beyond that just the usual tips. Very warm feeder, I prefer them dry because I don't like them covered in chipped aspen. Keeping the lights in the room as dark as possible. Red light works well for this. Slow movements, you want the snake focused on the feeder not on you. And most importantly patience. Just because you have 1 or a couple of failed attempts don't give up. The snake is not going to starve to death because it misses a couple of meals. In fact the hungrier it gets the better your odds for success are.

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Originally Posted by jason_ladouceur

It's been quite a few years since I've needed to since I've only kept a few bp's in recent years and they have all been acquired as babies. But back in the mid 90's I did have a small group of them, and at the time almost all bp's available were wc. I've found though that the most important "trick" is having your husbandry spot on. If the snake feels secure and hungry IME they will eat anything that triggers there feeding sensors. Beyond that just the usual tips. Very warm feeder, I prefer them dry because I don't like them covered in chipped aspen. Keeping the lights in the room as dark as possible. Red light works well for this. Slow movements, you want the snake focused on the feeder not on you. And most importantly patience. Just because you have 1 or a couple of failed attempts don't give up. The snake is not going to starve to death because it misses a couple of meals. In fact the hungrier it gets the better your odds for success are.

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Thanks, I appreciate it. I think my problem has been giving in too quickly, ie not getting them hungry enough.

I find the issue that people have with trying to get a live feeder to eat FT is either the prey isn't warmed up enough or properly, OR they don't do the zombie rat dance properly.

Ball pythons seem to be picky about how much movement they want in the prey. If you wave it around too much, the snake might get intimidated. Not enough and it doesn't catch the snake's interest. Once you master the steps of a good zombie rat dance, then you shouldn't have too much issue getting it to eat. I also seem to have to tug the dead rat's tail a few times once the snake hits it. I think the python believes it's "struggling" and so it really won't realize the rat was dead already. That's probably just me and my personal "old wives tale" type idea though.

Mostly I feed live because it's handier to me than having to dance a dead rat over and over on feeding day. But I'll be the first to say that a FT rat never bit a snake either. To each their own and there's no "one right way".

I only feed Steve prekilled, for a number of reasons. (You have to fill out paperwork to have a live animal of any kind, the room is too small to keep another habitat, buying a box of frozen mice is cheaper and easier since I can just keep them in the freezer...).
I honestly don't see what the big deal is with live feedings. Yes, the rat is hunted and killed, but that's what would happen in the wild! That's how snakes and mice did things before we started 'domesticating' them.

Yes, the killing process is somewhat gruesome initially, but the snake gets it done fairly quickly. (As opposed to our cats back home, who generally stand there watching the half-dead mouse and poke it for half an hour.) Steve goes through the killing process with his killed mice, it's an instinctive behavior that they can't just stop.