Quality of breeding stock

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

Perhaps something like this -

Pet Quality - These are the pythons with the least favorable coloring/pattern, but the most affordable.

Beginner Breeding Quality - These pythons are mid range, showing decent coloration/pattern for the morph. The majority of our babies fall in this category. Market price.

Superior Quality - These pythons go above and beyond the morph standard, showing excellent coloring/pattern. Our breeders come from this group. Priced according to market, with additional quality mark up.

Holdbacks / Breeders - These are our personal stock. Sometimes we will have pythons here we have bred in the past, who have been replaced by their offspring. All of these are Superior Quality, and priced accordingly.

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This is a fine idea; however, theres a pretty obvious problem. How would you make sure that the pet quality snakes aren't bred? Its not like a dog where most families buy a "pet quality" dog and never even consider breeding it.

Just curious; do any breeders out there cull babies that are pet quality or lower? Or does anyone know of any breeders that do?

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

This is a fine idea; however, theres a pretty obvious problem. How would you make sure that the pet quality snakes aren't bred? Its not like a dog where most families buy a "pet quality" dog and never even consider breeding it.

Just curious; do any breeders out there cull babies that are pet quality or lower? Or does anyone know of any breeders that do?

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I wouldn't "make sure they aren't bred" I let the people know they are pet quality, if they decide to breed on their own that is their mistake. (IE...go to any humane society). But, I believe by putting it out there that you feel some animals are below breeding standards, a lot of new breeders would see that and think twice about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

I wouldn't "make sure they aren't bred" I let the people know they are pet quality, if they decide to breed on their own that is their mistake. (IE...go to any humane society). But, I believe by putting it out there that you feel some animals are below breeding standards, a lot of new breeders would see that and think twice about it.

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Noobs come here and just see the numbers (money). I doubt they'd care that much if you tell them the snake is low quality. Idk, i could be wrong though.

I agree as well! But I have a question to everyone... Can and will the snake market bottom out?
Of all the breeders the mass production of morphs, do you think the snake morphs will run out?

It started... 20/30 years ago with the thought of only a few morphs. Now there are 1800 and counting. When will we run out? 30 years from now? Will we be looking for 10 or 20 gene morph?

Just curious in y'all's thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Noobs come here and just see the numbers (money). I doubt they'd care that much if you tell them the snake is low quality. Idk, i could be wrong though.

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There will be plenty of people who buy the pet quality and go ahead and breed. Just like there are plenty of people who buy the pet quality from fire and ice dragons and breed them. The thing is, when you show people different quality levels, some of them do have a tendency (I know I do) to look at all the tiers, then they sit and think...well damn, for $50 more I could get that beginner breeder quality, and that one really is prettier *think think*. If that scale makes people *think* about quality at all, I'm happy with it. Even if they decide to go for the lowest price, that planted the seed that quality does matter, and then maybe one day, even if it's years down the line, they will make that switch from BUY ALL THE BROWN PASTELS!!! to hey...lets focus more on quality now that we've had a few clutches...happily ever after.

Besides, if I grade my own snakes honestly, at least I can sleep at night knowing that I was up front about the pet quality. And in the end, that's all that really matters. Sleep. :P

The snake market has already bottomed out for many morphs, supply and demand is king,
The only way to stand out these days is quality, quality, quality.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

Perhaps something like this -

Pet Quality - These are the pythons with the least favorable coloring/pattern, but the most affordable.

Beginner Breeding Quality - These pythons are mid range, showing decent coloration/pattern for the morph. The majority of our babies fall in this category. Market price.

Superior Quality - These pythons go above and beyond the morph standard, showing excellent coloring/pattern. Our breeders come from this group. Priced according to market, with additional quality mark up.

Holdbacks / Breeders - These are our personal stock. Sometimes we will have pythons here we have bred in the past, who have been replaced by their offspring. All of these are Superior Quality, and priced accordingly.

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Pet Quality - These are good quality python representatives of their morph; below breeding quality. (I wouldn't want even my pet to be lowest quality... :( lol :P Even BP owners with only 'pets' are super proud of their Balls :D)

Mid Quality - These pythons are mid range, showing decent coloration/pattern for the morph. The majority of our babies fall in this category. Market price. ( don't know if I'd label these as breeder quality; am I wrong? We're trying to weed out people buying 'lowER end' snakes to breed (I know we can't stop them, but like you said, make them think)... should we try to hold that to Superior Quality?)

Superior Quality - These pythons go above and beyond the morph standard, showing excellent coloring/pattern. Our breeders come from this group. Priced according to market, with additional quality mark up.

Holdbacks / Breeders - These are our personal stock. Sometimes we will have pythons here we have bred in the past, who have been replaced by their offspring. All of these are Superior Quality, and priced accordingly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

This is a fine idea; however, theres a pretty obvious problem. How would you make sure that the pet quality snakes aren't bred? Its not like a dog where most families buy a "pet quality" dog and never even consider breeding it.

Just curious; do any breeders out there cull babies that are pet quality or lower? Or does anyone know of any breeders that do?

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We can't MAKE them not breed them, unfortunately... but like Rosey Reps said... if there is a standard, maybe it will help potential new breeders to think twice and subconsciously strive to acquire higher standards for their breeding practices. We'll be hard pressed to completely get rid of bad breeders. Heck, people do it with dogs, too. Unfortunately there is no 'spay/neuter' program for snakes.... :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

There will be plenty of people who buy the pet quality and go ahead and breed. Just like there are plenty of people who buy the pet quality from fire and ice dragons and breed them. The thing is, when you show people different quality levels, some of them do have a tendency (I know I do) to look at all the tiers, then they sit and think...well damn, for $50 more I could get that beginner breeder quality, and that one really is prettier *think think*. If that scale makes people *think* about quality at all, I'm happy with it. Even if they decide to go for the lowest price, that planted the seed that quality does matter, and then maybe one day, even if it's years down the line, they will make that switch from BUY ALL THE BROWN PASTELS!!! to hey...lets focus more on quality now that we've had a few clutches...happily ever after.

Besides, if I grade my own snakes honestly, at least I can sleep at night knowing that I was up front about the pet quality. And in the end, that's all that really matters. Sleep. :P

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Yes :)

As someone who is new to the various morphs of ball python (honestly had NO idea how many there were!), I see part of the problem being the fact there is NO standard and everything is left up to subjective opinion. On the one hand that's nice, because if person A actually does like cheap muddy pastels they can find cheap muddy pastels, but on the other hand that's not so nice because then person B who likes very nice, clean, bright (and maybe more expensive) pastels may have a harder time finding them because too many persons A are buying and producing the cheap muddy ones.

I may or may not ever breed my snakes, I have at least a year (maybe longer) before any of my females will be ready. I'm not jumping into it half-assed or hurrying up just to make more snakes (or at least i don't consider myself doing that!), I am happy to wait and watch my snakes grow, and learn more as I wait. But that being said... I AM learning. I came from breeding rats and working at a horse breeding stable, where there ARE standards. So coming into this has been kind of a whirlwind for me, as I try to figure out what makes one more and what makes another morph. As an example... awhile back I posted a few pictures of some snakes I found in an ad. The ad was for a lot of 4 snakes, price was pretty decent (maybe even a steal, too good to be true), and at least 2 of those snakes were morphs I am looking to add to my collection for possible future projects. BUT something about a couple of the snakes in the ad made me question their quality. It may have been the pictures, it may have been the snakes, it may have been me being an uninformed newbie who is still learning. So I posted asking for opinions. And the opinions I got were split 50/50 down the middle. 50% of replies said "Yes, great snake! Beautiful!" and 50% said "Not so much, pass." Considering that... how can a newbie like me truly learn what IS good quality?

I may not have the best quality snakes out there, but I am trying too. To add the snakes I do have, I have perused so many ads, looked at so many pictures. My snakes are simple, mostly one gene morphs, a two gene morph, and a normal het pied, but I personally am happy with that. I personally would rather have a room full of simple one or two gene morphs that I LIKE and I think are GORGEOUS than I would a whole house full of multi gene morphs that just don't do it for me. So far, I am very pleased with my collection (posted new pictures last night even), and am more pleased with them as they grow.

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Originally Posted by nimblykimbly

Pet Quality - These are good quality python representatives of their morph; below breeding quality. (I wouldn't want even my pet to be lowest quality... :( lol :P Even BP owners with only 'pets' are super proud of their Balls :D)

Mid Quality - These pythons are mid range, showing decent coloration/pattern for the morph. The majority of our babies fall in this category. Market price. ( don't know if I'd label these as breeder quality; am I wrong? We're trying to weed out people buying 'lowER end' snakes to breed (I know we can't stop them, but like you said, make them think)... should we try to hold that to Superior Quality?)

Superior Quality - These pythons go above and beyond the morph standard, showing excellent coloring/pattern. Our breeders come from this group. Priced according to market, with additional quality mark up.

Holdbacks / Breeders - These are our personal stock. Sometimes we will have pythons here we have bred in the past, who have been replaced by their offspring. All of these are Superior Quality, and priced accordingly.



We can't MAKE them not breed them, unfortunately... but like Rosey Reps said... if there is a standard, maybe it will help potential new breeders to think twice and subconsciously strive to acquire higher standards for their breeding practices. We'll be hard pressed to completely get rid of bad breeders. Heck, people do it with dogs, too. Unfortunately there is no 'spay/neuter' program for snakes.... :)


Yes :)

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The reasoning I had for labeling the mid range and beginner breeder was this: many / most of your morph customers are looking to breed at some point. The mid range would be the bulk of your sales, and consist of snakes that represent the morph accurately, to the general mmorph standards (your pastel, for example.) But are not holymotherofgod amazing. They are still high enough quality to breed, but you would want to line breed and improve them. Where as superior quality would be the best of the best. Probably only aa handful of snakes the entire year, sometimes none at all.

That was just my concept, add another tier, switch around how you would standardize your babies. It's a work in progress :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

The reasoning I had for labeling the mid range and beginner breeder was this: many / most of your morph customers are looking to breed at some point. The mid range would be the bulk of your sales, and consist of snakes that represent the morph accurately, to the general mmorph standards (your pastel, for example.) But are not holymotherofgod amazing. They are still high enough quality to breed, but you would want to line breed and improve them. Where as superior quality would be the best of the best. Probably only aa handful of snakes the entire year, sometimes none at all.

That was just my concept, add another tier, switch around how you would standardize your babies. It's a work in progress :D

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No, that actually totally makes sense to me now that you mention it!



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