this is why we dont feed live

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Originally Posted by shogun

Does nobody pre-kill? It's simple and more humane for the prey.

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I feed pre killed. I put the rat in a bag and give it a good whack. Ive never had to whack it twice. I use to feed live and might start doing so again. I stopped after a rat went absolutely insane and was lunging and hissing and there was no way i was going to put my snake in there. But i am willing to try again.

After seeing pics like these, I never can get myself to understand why a BP would just sit there and let a rat chomp on them... why wouldn't they fight back and defend themselves? They can easily kill the rat if they wanted too.

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Originally Posted by lX V1P3R Xl

After seeing pics like these, I never can get myself to understand why a BP would just sit there and let a rat chomp on them... why wouldn't they fight back and defend themselves? They can easily kill the rat if they wanted too.

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Because a ball python's defense mechanism is to ball up, not to lash out. Hence their name.

Unmoving balled up snake = sitting duck

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Wow that is definitely an old picture. At first I thought this was a resurrected thread. That photo pops up every now and then and the same discussion follows :P. I actually like the discussion. Live vs f/t is a well-debated topic with great pros for each.

I prefer to feed f/t personally. It takes 1 good bite from the rat to damage the snake's eye. One bad strike from the BP to allow the rat to gnaw on them long enough to do some damage (It only takes a second). Several photos I've come across on kingsnake from reputable folks show a snake with a few small bite wounds either on their head or body. It's not life-threatening, nor will it interfere with the quality of the snake's life, but one aspect of keeping these snakes is photographing them. I get bothered when there's a little piece of stuck shed on a snake and I'm trying to photograph them. I want the snake to look flawless.

I also can't stand hearing the squeaking of the rodents when they're getting killed. I'm a softie, I know. I love rats and if I don't have to feed them while they're alive, I won't. I'm very grateful for the f/t market :D.

Still, I don't ever tell someone NOT to feed f/t because I know there is a responsible way to do it. I have fed live before when feeding the picky feeders, and I just don't like to do it. My personal preference.

One thing I will NEVER recommend is pre-killing. I have heard of too many stories of people failing to successfully pre-kill, and they end up hurting the rodent much more than if they just let the snake do it... I don't see the point in pre-killing either since the snakes really should do the job... Oh, and if I can't stand the squealing, I can't imagine what it must feel like to knock them out by slamming them into a wall or flicking them in the head hard enough to knock them out. I just can't see myself doing that, and it isn't me.

If you can't kill any way other than putting the rat in the bag and smacking it on the wall, you shouldn't be killing rats at all. It can be done quickly and humanely, but you do have to know how.

CO2 or cervical spinal separation are the way to go.

Blunt force trauma is an effective and quick way to do it. And from what ive heard co2 isnt painless.

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Originally Posted by Gerardo

Blunt force trauma is an effective and quick way to do it. And from what ive heard co2 isnt painless.

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The thing about blunt force trauma in a bag is you don't know where you're hitting the rat. You might hit it on the rump or side and do nothing but hurt the thing. Grab it by the tail and whack its back over something if you need to, but don't just blindly smack a bag against a wall. You owe the rat better than that.

Hadnt thought of that. I havnt had any rat survive the initial hit but i will definately do it like you said from now on.