Really, is the market getting that bad?

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Originally Posted by Ridinandreptiles

The thig is is even though prices are dropping any they will be the next corn snake a person can still make their money back if they are passionate about te hobby. Hell, if pewters drop to 50 and you paid 400 in 2-3 years you should have 100% of your money. So I don't think we should be shy about spending for a hobby. I think people making money days are over unless you have millions of lil snakies

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You still have to factor in the upkeep of said snake. If you breed your own rodents, bedding and food adds up. You cant get into this hobby with the intent of making money. It just isn't going to happen unless you are working with 4-5 gene combos or new morphs.

I don't think it's going to stay this way. Rumor has it, from another breeder who has seen some of these, that there is at least one breeder in particular who has a LOT of new morphs that have yet to be released. Along with a couple other breeders who also have unreleased morphs. I'm hearing that there are even some new genes. Actual co-doms/doms and recessive morphs.

I believe it's only a matter of time before things get out and the market picks back up again.

Bad for breeders; good for collectors. :-)

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

You still have to factor in the upkeep of said snake. If you breed your own rodents, bedding and food adds up. You cant get into this hobby with the intent of making money. It just isn't going to happen unless you are working with 4-5 gene combos or new morphs.

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I did not invest hundred of thousands, I do not own 4 or 5 genes animals. My collection started very modestly with a pair of het pieds, a spider, a pastel, a black pastel and a normal.

The first 2 years I was in the hole, broke on my third year, made my first profit on year 4 and it has doubled every year.

I don't make hundreds of thousands but I make a very nice supplemental income plus re-invested $5000 in a few animals this year.

So yes a small breeders can make money if they have a plan, of course breeding a pastel or a mojave to 20 normals is not going to make you money.

Now what kind of money and how fast will one make will depends on their plan and initial investment, not everyone wants to be a professional breeder, some people want to break even and have a hobby that pays for itself, some want a little extra incomes and some want to turn this as a full time job.

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Originally Posted by sharkrocket

You have to keep in mind that those people who are listing their ball pythons so low in price are NOT BUSINESSMEN!! They are joe blow and janet blow who have ball pythons to sell and they are sick of waiting for a buyer who is willing to pay their asking price. They might be hurting for money, so they are dropping their price because to them, $150 would help them pay their rent.

The only way it would hurt the market OVERALL is if all of us saw that and said "Oh crap they are going for $150 now. I guess my price needs to be that low!" Get out of here! You don't need to drop your price to their level. That's what hurts the market! If we all ignore that lowball price, then eventually that breeder will sell out of his stock. When someone comes to you and says "But I saw one on KS for $150," you need to explain to them that this price is not really the going price!

Colin Weaver of ECRB has some awesome articles on this subject. Please take some time and read them. They helped me so much. Well worth the time if you are considering getting into reptile breeding.

http://ballpythonbreeder.com/2009/04...price-animals/

http://ballpythonbreeder.com/category/all-posts/

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^ SPOT ON [in my opinion] !! its these people breeding out of their basements and then sticking their animals up for sale for WAY less than everyone else to try and make a quick sale for quick cash.

Upkeep per snake is what? Maybe 120 in rats each year (52 weeks times $2 a rat plus some change) plus some amount of electricity, which coukd be either negligible or significant depending on your set up, plus any vet visits or other one time expenses.

Lets call It $200 a snake.

So if you get six babies per female, and keep one male per four females, that means 5 snakes cost you $1000 a year and produces 24 babies. Meaning if you can sell them for a bit over $40 each on average you break even on regular expenses.

I may be drastically underestimating upkeep, but I feel like this generally indicates keeping and breeding ball pythons is a hobby that roughly pays for itself IF you can move all the babies and possess a morph male.

Of course paying for itself is not the same as making money in the least, but I'm more than happy for my hobby to be revenue neutral.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I did not invest hundred of thousands, I do not own 4 or 5 genes animals. My collection started very modestly with a pair of het pieds, a spider, a pastel, a black pastel and a normal.

The first 2 years I was in the hole, broke on my third year, made my first profit on year 4 and it has doubled every year.

I don't make hundreds of thousands but I make a very nice supplemental income plus re-invested $5000 in a few animals this year.

So yes a small breeders can make money if they have a plan, of course breeding a pastel or a mojave to 20 normals is not going to make you money.

Now what kind of money and how fast will one make will depends on their plan and initial investment, not everyone wants to be a professional breeder, some people want to break even and have a hobby that pays for itself, some want a little extra incomes and some want to turn this as a full time job.

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Over how many years and when did you start? Not to mention that it was a lot different when you started up. Imagine you just now starting up. Do you think it would end up being the same way now? I doubt it. The economy plus the prices are so drastically different now days. Like comparing apples to oranges. Not to mention Deb, you also have some stuff that you proved out yourself don't you? That helps out your collection a lot. :D

Prices are not dropping in half for most morphs every year and even if they did, there is still money to be made. Suppose you buy a female morph for $2000. The next year, prices drop to 50% and you pick up a male for $1000. The third year, you breed and produce six babies that you sell for $500 each (notice the drop of 50% each year). You have recouped your initial investment and next year if you get a clutch of six babies and the price drops to $250, then you profit $1,500. The upkeep is not that expensive. I breed my own rodents, so that helps keep cost down. Even if you figure in the cost of upkeep of the three breeders, you will still make a profit after the third year.

Now, if you keep investing in your collection you can do exactly what Deborah did. Get to a point where you are making a good profit and re-investing in your collection. You do have to be smart about it and pick some good genes and quality snakes. You also have to provide great customer service, work at establishing a solid reputation and making good business decisions.

Thanks everyone for the the responses. I did not expect this to turn into such a long thread, i do believe if you are just starting to get into the "ball game" for money you will become burnt out. I also do believe that if you just get into the game now you can become in the profit side of this hobby. it just may take 3+ years as Deb said.
I am in the ball game as a hobby, but when purchasing my snakes i did take the business side also. I looked at the animals, the price, the quality, and what type of project it could fit into. I plan to breed and hold back anything i do like or i feel that will work into my future projects, but also i want to have the quality in the animals i do not plan on holding back so that they can be offered for sale, and not just be another pastel for sale that is starting to brown at 400 grams, i want the best or closest to best example of the morph. And if i just break even over the course of 20+ years i will be happy, since it is my hobby.

Figure this you buy a male phantom for 1000. Next year they are 300. You produced two. 600. Next year they are 50 you breed to a mojave and sell the one baby you produce for 400. EVEN!!! And those are crappy odds and not real prices. People say they're the next corn snake but the last time I checked people can still have a self sustaining hobby with corns. I have balls and will invest in ball no matter how crappy prices get. Same with hog nose those will e the next ball python (ithink) and I'll stick with balls and that ghi I'm gonna buy for 5k, I can make $ selling the babies at 50 if I do it long enough. PLUS there is still new morphs like the battery acid and ghi tht have massive potential. If you are passionate and do not lose hope in balls they can be a good self sustaining hobby forever, just like corns were if you investe in those a few decades ago