Why do you pair mulriple sires w/ one female?

I like you gale. you got dat fiyah!

Anyway, Ill admit it. My spider and 1 female normal arent the greatest quality. But the female isnt ever getting bred. I love her too much. And my spider has a beautiful pattern, im just not a big fan of his pixely sides. BUT my pastel is GEORGOUS. So im hoping she can offset that part mostly. I dont think id call any BP morphs junk, because evwn the uglier ones still dont look bad im my eyes. Just not shining examples of their morph. Thats just me though.

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I like you gale. you got dat fiyah!

Anyway, Ill admit it. My spider and 1 female normal arent the greatest quality. But the female isnt ever getting bred. I love her too much. And my spider has a beautiful pattern, im just not a big fan of his pixely sides. BUT my pastel is GEORGOUS. So im hoping she can offset that part mostly. I dont think id call any BP morphs junk, because evwn the uglier ones still dont look bad im my eyes. Just not shining examples of their morph. Thats just me though.

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"I suggest you keep your know-nothing bottom of the shelf comments to yourself.

You don't know me, and you don't know my snakes. I don't have any "junky third string males" for your information, looser. All of my males are top quality examples of their morph, the best I could find. So don't you dare suggest that just because I don't care if I get an exceptional Pastave, an exceptional Vanilla Mojave, or an exceptional Savannah that I'm breeding "just to make junky babies" you twirp.

My fire babies are some of the brightest anyone has ever seen. My vanillas are super bright and clean. And my husbands female produced not only a beautiful Lesser girl but a stunning Woma girl, there is nothing third string about those babies. Maybe his pastel isn't something to write home about, but now we know she doesn't make the best pastels so we know not to pair her to pastel in the future.

Of course there are plenty of people out there who breed whatever to whatever just to make babies no matter the quality, but don't blanket statement that only newbies and junk breeders pair more than one male to a female.

Gale"

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Lol.
Maybe it's just me, but I breed with a purpose. Myabe it's because I've been breeding for a LOT longer than you, but I don't just throw multiple males in with females to produce SOMETHING. I breed to produce what I want, limiting "chance" as much as I can.
Trust your males.
Or don't and just produce anything to have more animals to sell.
I don't care what you do.
Congrats on all your random singles and doubles though...
Harpee.

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"If I have no specific preference on the future outcome and know I will be happy either way with what comes out of it I will pair 2 males to a female. If I plan on very specific results than only one male is used. "

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THAT is a wonderful way to look at it.

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Originally Posted by mykee

Lol.
Maybe it's just me, but I breed with a purpose. Myabe it's because I've been breeding for a LOT longer than you, but I don't just throw multiple males in with females to produce SOMETHING. I breed to produce what I want, limiting "chance" as much as I can.
Trust your males.
Or don't and just produce anything to have more animals to sell.
I don't care what you do.
Congrats on all your random singles and doubles though...
Harpee.

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THAT is a wonderful way to look at it.

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So what you are saying sir, is that with the mentality that youre going to be fine with whatever pops out, it is okay to pair multiple sires with one dame.

But if you are trying to make sure that your dame is in fact gravid and pair her with multiple snakes you create these junky morphs.

Now, whats bugging me is that the snakes themselves are not changing nor are the pairings in these two scenarios. You would wind up with the same results because there is no difference between the two. Unless of course mentality can improve or deteriorate the quality of a snakes pattern of course. Please correct me if im wrong.

On another note, I would like to say that I dont beleive any BP breeder would ever throw random snakes together just to have a clutch, and for a veteran breeder such as yourself, you cant seem to tell the difference between multiple desired pairings, and randomly generated pairings. Fledgling breeders buy ball pythons to start out. They buy specific morphs that they PLAN to breed with a certain few other morphs. If you own a snake and plan you breed it you are already not throwing random snakes together. the moment you buy it every opposite sex BP in that collection becomes a possible pairing.

Last rail, I promise. If no one put random snakes together in the effort to pompously "breed with a purpose" how many less morphs do you think would be available to us today?

Random singles and doubles hmm?

What part of I don't care if I get an exceptional Pastave OR an exceptional Savannah do you not understand ? If I have one outstanding Mojave female [ which I do ] why does it make more sense to pair her this season with ONLY my fantastic pastel, and next season with ONLY my to die for cinnamon, than to put both of my top notch males with her this season and just see what happens?

Why, if I desire to make BOTH Pastaves and Savannahs, I am required { according to you } to own TWO top quality Mojave females ? Maybe I can only find one that I think is the best. So then, according to you, I must ONLY ever breed her to one male per season. It would take me forever to produce the babies I want doing it that way. Maybe you want to take a lifetime to produce something special, I do not.

If on the other hand, I own one magnificent cinnamon female, and since I cannot decide if she will make stellar Pewters OR Cinnabees the likes of which have never been seen, then I am going to pair BOTH my Pastel male and my Spider male to her. If I am fortunate and produce one of each baby, then I can choose which carries the look I desire most, and repeat the pairing that produced that look. And if both of the babies are so outstanding I can sell them for $100 over market value ? Then guess what ? Next season both males get to visit her again.

You breed as you like, sir.

But don't force your ideas on others by talking down about what they do.

Gale

Yeah yeah yeah, we get it: you have outstanding examples of every morph you own, they're wonderful, gorgeous and perfect in every conceivable way. The best of the best.
My point was this: Newer breeders tend to go with the whole "Who's your Daddy" clutches because, like yourself, you have equally-valued and genetically similar one and two gene males so it really doesn't matter whether you get one "outstanding double" or another "outstanding double". That's fine when you're breeding singles and doubles to like snakes.
The kink arises when you have four and five gene animals breeding three, four and five gene animals. Then you really have to focus your breeding to work with the genetics you have, hence the bigger breeders with more established collections won't be breeding multiple (different) males to their females.

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"I am required { according to you } to own TWO top quality Mojave females "

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Nope, two males. But only if you consider a mojave a "top notch" breeding animal.....

Riv; sorry I can't respond to your post, but I honestly could not understand most of what you said.

I am going to point out at this point in time that 2 + 1 = 3.

I am also going to point out that if I ever decide to spend thousands of dollars on a 4+ gene snake, I won't be buying it from Mykee.

One other reason you would breed multiple males to a female is to increase your odds at a split clutch. As someone with a small and growing collection, the idea of being able to hit 2 of the combos I'm looking for out of a single female with 1 clutch instead of 2 is very, very appealing.

Mykee, youve defiunitely succeeded in making a mule of yourself. If you dont understand what I was saying than I doubt your ability to comprehend the english language. The mentality of the breeder does not effect the genetics of the snake. So what youre thinking going into a clutch with multiple sires makes no difference. Whether you dont mind the outcome, or whether you want to be SURE she is pregnant, they would still be the same snake trio with the same genetic make up, and would yeild the same quality of morph. I was simply calling you out the hypocrisy of your post. Condeming one reason to pair multiple sires, while backing another.

You have insinuated that the quality of the morph is deteriorated by the fact that the dame had multiple sires which is absolutely untrue. Nobody and I do mean nobody strives to breed a sub par snake, and its unfair of you to say that anyone elses breeders are sub par compared to your own. And in all of your "experience" you have failed to realize the diversity that pairing two snakes that normally wouldnt be paired can bring into this business. Thats how new morphs are discovered in the first place.

On top of that you disrespect and condescend to those who breed with multiple sires, assuming that their snakes are less quality when you dont know anything about them, their collection, or what they produce.

For instancce. I dont like yellow bellies. I dont find them attractive at all. Without knowing their super form I may have considered them junky snakes with stupid yellow parts, not worth breeding because the pastel has a more vibrant color that covers the entire body as opposed to just the sides. But somebody took a chance and bred them together producing the ivory, a beautiful beautiful morph. By saying that no one should experiment even with the uglies, goes against everything that ball pythons breeders strive for. You go ahead and stick with your closed minded, boring plans, and kindly do not repost here. I cant speak for anyone else hear, but I do not care to hear anything else you have to say.

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Originally Posted by mykee

Yeah yeah yeah, we get it: you have outstanding examples of every morph you own, they're wonderful, gorgeous and perfect in every conceivable way. The best of the best.
My point was this: Newer breeders tend to go with the whole "Who's your Daddy" clutches because, like yourself, you have equally-valued and genetically similar one and two gene males so it really doesn't matter whether you get one "outstanding double" or another "outstanding double". That's fine when you're breeding singles and doubles to like snakes.
The kink arises when you have four and five gene animals breeding three, four and five gene animals. Then you really have to focus your breeding to work with the genetics you have, hence the bigger breeders with more established collections won't be breeding multiple (different) males to their females.


Nope, two males. But only if you consider a mojave a "top notch" breeding animal.....

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Why would you not pair 2 4 gene makes to your 5 gene female? are you afraid you won't know what comes out of the eggs?

To me it seems like an insurance policy, one of then will get the job done and of you are lucky, both will.

Your comments are not helpful, nor correct.

Oh and I would love to see pics of your collection since you have been at this so much longer than all of us. It must be right up there with NERDS!

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Riv, you completely misunderstood what I meant by "junky" males. I agree that I may have used the wrong word to described a less expensive, less genetically diverse male for breeding purposes. What I meant by "junky" was breeding a pastel male (the "junky" one) to back up your super pastel mojave pinstripe hypo. The "junky" comment wasn't a dig on the animal itself or it's quality, but my comparison to a more genetically diverse animal.

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"The mentality of the breeder does not effect the genetics of the snake. So what you're thinking going into a clutch with multiple sires makes no difference. Whether you don't mind the outcome, or whether you want to be SURE she is pregnant, they would still be the same snake trio with the same genetic make up, and would yield the same quality of morph. "

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I have a wonderful grasp of the English language, but the above is another example of the train of thought that I simply don't understand. Too hippy dippy for me to wrap my head around, sorry.