Espresso Project... finally proving out?

What an interesting thread!! I produced the original "Espresso x Pastel" cross in 2006 and sold the adult animals in question in this thread. So for a few clarifications:

a) For those who think the original male is a pewter, you are gravely mistaken... I have produced so many pastel clutches with this male that I can't even count how many pastels he produced for me over 4 or 5 years. He fathered like 5 clutches a year. Great breeder and an extremely beautiful pastel that aged very well. I ran a reptile business for a few years and was so versed into ball pythons, I would of recognized Cinnamons had I of produced ANY at all. I guarantee everyone here, there is no doubt the original male pastel is nothing but that - a very nice pastel.

b) The original female was purchased from a guy in Montreal, Canada. He had a pair of normals as pets, and I bought both of them in 1999 (she was likely born in 1997 though). I still have the male at home, which could not be any more normal other than being the tamest, friendliest snake I've ever owned in my life. The female is darker than most normal ball pythons, but otherwise couldn't look any more normal. This female was likely captive-hatched, but I don't know for sure. This female produced a clutch for me in 2006 and again in.. not sure, but I think 2008 or maybe even in 2009... for that clutch, I bred back a few normal-looking 2006 males she had produced with the pastel. Only normal appearing babies came out. Similar to what was described earlier, reduced patterns, banding and light chocolate type coloring, but nothing really unusual. I sold everything as normal babies (mistake or not, I had a day job and could not keep everything). The 2006 female cross was DEFINITELY not a regular pastel (pictures prove it and I hatched way too many pastels to be confused on that one). Didn't know if it was genetic or not however and did not manage to breed her before I sold her.

In short, I had given up on this project honestly. I think it is very possible that a new line of Cinnamons appeared spontaneously or that it's something new that ressembles a Cinnamon. What makes this confusing is that the original female doesn't appear to be producing any Cinnamons - and I expected to see some in my 2008 or 2009 clutch. The 2006 cross female did in fact produce one Cinnamon-looking animal, which was just as exciting for me than the Pastel x Mojave x Espresso cross (as awesome as it looks!). Future breedings will help clear the puzzle up, but my take on it: the original female will likely turn out to be nothing but a normal and the "Espresso" gene will be a new line of Cinnamons (with or without accompanying defects).

Can't wait to see the results, because no matter what the end result of this whole project will be, the genetics part of all of this is completely fascinating to me! This is was made me "tick" when I was working with Ball Pythons. All the best to the crew working with the project - I wish you all the best with it!

Alex: no Charcoal project involved with the animals discussed in this thread... time for you to get to work and see if there was anything going on there or not! ;-)

Regards,
Bristen.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually, for anyone interested, the second clutch the original female produced for me was in 2009, and I had started a blog that has a few pictures there of the babies (no Cinnamon looking babies there):
http://royalgemreptiles.blogspot.com/2009/08/hatched-espresso-and-mojave-clutches.html

Regards,
Bristen.