What Do You Make of These Ball Pythons??? - Morph???

Im thinking that the first two are bees with moms pattern doing something wierd to their pattern, the third just a pastel, and the last a normal. Ok didnt read all the other posts, who knows. Look cool though either way, good luck

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Based on the defect and the temp spike, I suspect that this is not genetic, but incubation related.

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I would have to agree that this is probably not genetic but incubation related. I would definitely repeat the pairing just in case.

It's possible that the reason the first two are so wacky is something developmental, since it seems they may have other issues as well. I'd agree that the 3rd looks pastel, not bee, as well.

I agree with most posts thus far that they all of those are great looking snakes and most likely crazy pastels. The high temperature spike in the "real" incubator could very possibly explain the shortened head formation. (http://www.oocities.org/vermont_herp...y/article2.htm, 7th paragraph).

I am not sure if the spike in temperature would be able to cause the pattern of the animal to change. That would in effect be changing the DNA of the individual. That would be the same as saying someone who wanted their pastels to be brighter could simply incubate at 93 instead of 90. Isn't the pattern of the animal determined by their genetic make-up? I know that temperature during incubation in some reptiles can change gene interaction and influence male/female outcome(crocodillian), but can it really influence the specific patter?

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Originally Posted by TXpythons

I am not sure if the spike in temperature would be able to cause the pattern of the animal to change. That would in effect be changing the DNA of the individual. That would be the same as saying someone who wanted their pastels to be brighter could simply incubate at 93 instead of 90. Isn't the pattern of the animal determined by their genetic make-up? I know that temperature during incubation in some reptiles can change gene interaction and influence male/female outcome(crocodillian), but can it really influence the specific patter?

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You can change pattern without changing DNA.

Pigment begins in the neural crest and migrates down to form the pattern. All that has to happen for the color and pattern to change is for that migration to be interrupted.

I'm only on my second cup of coffee, so this is going to be a pretty butchered explanation, but I'd guess that the chemical processes and genetic switches that are supposed to happen in incubation depend a lot on temperature. As would speed of development . . . Just like temperature can speed up or slow down processes in adult snakes. Sometimes, temp spikes at the wrong time can cause wonky bone growth. It's causing the control switches in the fetus to mis-fire. It is the same with pigment. Heat is interrupting the normal development of the pattern just like it's interrupting the normal growth of the snake's lower jaw.

Hopefully, someone else can give a better explanation than I can right now.

Holy cow the first two are insane! I have no idea what is going on with them! Were the parents related? Possibly carrying something genetic?

If there was a spike, it could definitely contribute to the crazy patterns. I didn't read far enough to see there was a temp issue. I have seen some really crazy looking patterns just because the temps spiked. It's so strange that the temp can have that much of an effect on patterns, but it does happen.

This is the result of an incubation problem. Snakes born with temp complications can look incredible. Typically they have deformed heads, kinks, neurological problems, or other subtle deformities. The snake will not be genetic unfortunately, and in a lot of cases, are often culled because of the defect. If it struggles to thrive, I'd recommend finding a vet to properly euthanize. Good luck.

First two just look like Pastels that were affected by the heat spike...

The patterns are pretty awesome. I hope you find some viability there.

If those first two little ones survive and can eat, I would be very interested in adopting them. I have an amazing eyeless normal I adopted from Pat at Action Reptiles who is one of my favorite snakes.

Just keep me in mind for a forever pet home.

I am sorry this happened to you, I agree it is most likely an incubation issue, but I would certainly repeat the breeding with the bee to her next year and see what happens.

Gale