Is this a Fire Ball??

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Originally Posted by Shewter325

Its hard to tell with fires, but one thing i have heard several times with fires and cinnys is half the eye ball being white. It looks like yours has that trait.

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I don't know of any ball python that has half of the eye white. A fire may have lighter eyes or the top half where the eye stripe runs through the eye will be lighter, but not white.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I don't know of any ball python that has half of the eye white. A fire may have lighter eyes or the top half where the eye stripe runs through the eye will be lighter, but not white.

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I actually own one with white/black eyes. Bottom is black. Top is white. Not green, not gold, not yellow, not even a yellow tint. Just white. As far as I know, she's only a normal...
When I find my camera, I can take better pictures, if you'd like. Unfortunately I only have my phone right now.
*edit* wow, I'm sorry, I'm using tapatalk and the photo quality loaded way worse than it actually looks.
http://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4dd50-ea12-7fde.jpg

Here is my fire
http://i42.tinypic.com/37k7l.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/2u8atyp.jpg

I'm voting for normal too.

Here is a belly shot of this snake. The head patter is there, the light eye is there. What do you think about the belly??
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...llyreduced.jpg

Nobody is going to tell you it is a fire ball because there is no way to know. It wasn't purchased from a reputable breeder as a fire ball therefore the only way to prove it is to breed it to a fire ball. If you get a black eyed Leucistic, then you can say its a fire. Until then, it's a normal.

It would be irresponsible for anyone to try to say yes you definitely have a fire ball just based on color and head stamp. These things are not that uncommon with normals.

I agree. There is no way to know for certain without proving her out with another known fire.

I wonder how (if) breeders are able to sort out the fires from the normals in a clutch if there is no sure 'fire' way to tell them apart. Unless you cross a super to a super there is some percentage of a clutch that could be normal. That means there could be some percentage of fires that are sold as normals or normals sold as fires.

Of course they can pick out their fires if they bred a known fire to a normal. Then you know exactly what you have. When you see them beside the other babies, especially after their first shed, it's obvious.

Just like I have no problem at all picking out the Russo hets from the normals in my clutches. After you've produced them from proven morphs it's easy to tell. If you know for certain what you're starting with, then you know what you'll end up with. Breeders develop an eye for the subtle morphs. It's no different than a breeder being able to pick their mystics from a clutch. Or their specters.

If you are starting with a "dinker" however, you don't know exactly what you have, therefore you don't know what you'll get. Even if you got babies that looked like the dam, you still couldn't say they were fires until you produced a leucy. All BPs reproduce their selves. Wether they are a morph or not. Color and pattern is passed on. This is why all the time we see people talking about how they bred this dinker to that dinker and they produced babies that looked just like the sire or dam. Ive seen a lot of these where those dinkers looked like regular jungle patterned normals and they were just producing babies with the same cool pattern but nothing more.

The point is, the more a person pushes for a yes answer, the more they be told it must be bred to be proven. All we can do when it comes to possible subtle morphs is give our opinion. Our opinion is what will help you decide the best mate for breeding to ultimately prove if its a morph or not.

It looks like a normal to me here's my fire for comparison http://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4e96f-36c0-14a9.jpg I hope the picture shows


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Wrong color for a Fire.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I have never seen a real fire that didn't have the head spot and would never buy one without it.

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I have a male Fire that came directly from Mike Wilbanks. He has no/maybe slight head stamp, more just blushing. I also know for a fact he is a Fire.

This is him next to my female Vanilla dinker. Heck, my Vanilla dinker girl has a better head stamp then him.

Fire (Left) - Vanilla (Right)
http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/...-45-57_870.jpg