price dropping

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

If every John Doe would stop breeding every pair of snakes they get JUST to give it a try, The market wouldnt get flooded. I see way too many Kids 12+ breeding, and finding it Impossible to sell them unless its to other minors.

Most Breeders/Collectors like myself will not engage with minors on sales, So they have to find someone at lower prices. And this has been getting worse year after year.

Someone New joins the hobby, gets a few normals or pastels, and in a year are breeding them with a business name under their belt. When they cant sell, guess what, the price becomes very low so they can move it.

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Wow! Blaming the price dropping on kid breeders. I didn't see that coming. :O

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

Wow! Blaming the price dropping on kid breeders. I didn't see that coming. :O

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Not blaming it solely on them, But its become clear more and more each year on forums younger keepers jumping into the hobby to breed thinking its money maker. Some stick around to realize its not that easy and others drop off.

I don't really worry about what I can't control...the market is the market.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Rare for you but I sold a good 40 hatching to pet owners that had no intentions of breeding since they bought all males form me.

Most breeders bought females from me not males, unless it was a genetic powerhouse. But avg pet owner will drop 1000$ on a snake just like they do for dogs and cats.

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I agree. Most of my sales were to pet owners this year. People will pay $1000 for a nice morph pet.

I do not think blaming it on hobby breeders or kids explains it. If that were the case the bigger breeders could stick the their prices and the market would hold on reputation and quality. The fact of the matter is that most everything depreciates over time, some things faster than others. It is always a gamble trying to figure where and when to get in when you want to make money.

But as has been stated repeatedly it comes down to what folks will pay. If you have a snake listed for $2000 and no one wants to buy it, it is not worth $2000. There are options there as to keeping it and putting on size/breeding, or lowering the price. There will always be folks looking to get the cheapest they can find, and that is OK. Reputable breeders have to bank on their rep and quality of the stock, and the rest will sort itself out.

In my case, I plan to breed my male to my 4 girls in a few years when they are ready. I have the capability to make some pretty decent morphs, and if that turned out to cover the costs put in to it thats great, if not that is great too. I would likely keep the higher end ones for myself anyway, but such is the prerogative of the hobby breeder. Simply, I bought morphs I like that can make other morphs that I like. I am not 12, nor am I looking to make a buck. When I go to sell my offspring I will look at the current market and sell for what I see fit based on that. Hell, I may even give away some of the base morphs to friends for free, look out market...

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Originally Posted by jinx667

I do not think blaming it on hobby breeders or kids explains it. If that were the case the bigger breeders could stick the their prices and the market would hold on reputation and quality. The fact of the matter is that most everything depreciates over time, some things faster than others. It is always a gamble trying to figure where and when to get in when you want to make money.

But as has been stated repeatedly it comes down to what folks will pay. If you have a snake listed for $2000 and no one wants to buy it, it is not worth $2000. There are options there as to keeping it and putting on size/breeding, or lowering the price. There will always be folks looking to get the cheapest they can find, and that is OK. Reputable breeders have to bank on their rep and quality of the stock, and the rest will sort itself out.

In my case, I plan to breed my male to my 4 girls in a few years when they are ready. I have the capability to make some pretty decent morphs, and if that turned out to cover the costs put in to it thats great, if not that is great too. I would likely keep the higher end ones for myself anyway, but such is the prerogative of the hobby breeder. Simply, I bought morphs I like that can make other morphs that I like. I am not 12, nor am I looking to make a buck. When I go to sell my offspring I will look at the current market and sell for what I see fit based on that. Hell, I may even give away some of the base morphs to friends for free, look out market...

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Ive been doing that for years. Giving Normals away if they wanted the extra mouth to feed. A lot took it some didnt. Those giving away snakes arent giving away expensive ones, usually its normals,spiders,pastels,or hets.

Many first time or beginning breeders, especially minors, sell to local pet stores that aren't on the professional or hobby breeders' radar. It would be nice to see reptiles, especially ball pythons, become more mainstream and we would see far less attempts to ban and restrict them as a result.

First time and only time breeders most likely will not make their money back but they are providing a useful service in supplying cheap normals and in the process, increasing the number of potential future serious morph buyers who get hooked after buying a locally produced normal. Even if not, in the light of the python bans and my own state's looming "virtually all exotic animals ban", I would greatly encourage minors to get hooked on reptile pets and one day help stop ridiculous legislation like this. New breeders are by definition this hobby's future and lower prices encourages more to get involved as well as give established breeders the opportunity to sell more "proven quality" animals.

i dont have half, or even a quarter of the time invested as alot of yall do, but when adding up ALL of my cost, i have quiet a bit of money invested (to me anyway). iv had balls for about 4 years, all were bought as young snakes, and i have yet made enough to cover food costs.. LOL i have yet to make a penny:rolleyes:. one day, i just hope to cover food cost.
spooky

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Originally Posted by mr.spooky

i dont have half, or even a quarter of the time invested as alot of yall do, but when adding up ALL of my cost, i have quiet a bit of money invested (to me anyway). iv had balls for about 4 years, all were bought as young snakes, and i have yet made enough to cover food costs.. LOL i have yet to make a penny:rolleyes:. one day, i just hope to cover food cost.
spooky

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Thats what I hope to do by breeding albinos. I want to try at breeding with those two first, and see if its worth it to me, or if I should just keep them as pets and not try to breed. I know I wouldn't make a lot of money off them, but if I could cover some food costs OR just get back what I paid for the pair :D Thats why I chose to go with albinos too because its a simple recessive morph but they are still one of my favorites!

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Originally Posted by Dave Green

I don't really worry about what I can't control...the market is the market.

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I completely agree. I'm not a business major but I'll give my :2cent:. First and foremost I would like to say I'm just discussing and brainstorming, please do not take to offense anything I'm saying.

I don't think there should be a set price for any particular morph. I think there is a ball park suggested value for a particular animal, but no set market value. Determining the price is based off of a couple of trend graphs. The first being the Supply and Demand graph which we should all be familiar with. The second is the Price vs Quality. And lastly, the market value is in fact controlled by the large scale breeders; this is true if you look at oil and gas companies. Gas prices typically go up during the summer because people travel. Some could be doing it because they are trying to get out, or trying to sell it cheap so they can get quick cash. Now I'm not saying that selling an animal under suggested market value is a good idea, but it happens.

On the other hand I bring to question the market value an animal. For example the market value for a clown is $1500, but the individual sells it for $1100. Who's to say the market value is the correct value? There is no standardized price for specific morphs. Which brings me to the next question who sets the market values? The market values for morphs are set by the large scale breeders. IMO they base these prices on a few things (I'm going to try and make this as clear as possible). For example, I'm going to assume the parents cost $1000 each, they produce 4 eggs, food cost $300 per year, husbandry cost $550 (includes electricity), medical cost $150 per year, and lets say time spent is worth $400. Therefore theoretically an offspring's value is ($1000 + $1000 + $300 + $550 + $150 + 400)/4 = $850. You still need to make profit so you bump the price up 20% at minimum = $1020. There's always an X factor; how much do I think this morph is worth and what are the capabilities of it genetically? The X factor could 2x, 3x, 1.5x, etc... from the initial value.

In conclusion I think that there shouldn't be a justified market value. Everyone has in their own right to sell things how they see fit. I prefer buying quality things and don't mind paying for it. Sorry for the long post.