Homozygous Spider Morph

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Domepiece

SO just curious, are there any Homo forms of dominant traits in ball pythons. I understand that they are labled a certain way to make things easier but from the ones we call dominant is there a dominant morph that makes a homo version?

---

There are homo versions, they just don't look any different. If I bred a snake with dominate gene X to another snake with dominate gene X 25% on average would by homo for gene X.

It works the same way as with Co-Doms, the only difference is that there isn't a visual Difference between the het and the homo versions.

Not only would breeding Spider X Spider to gather information on the possibility of a lethal homozygous form be a huge undertaking for any breeder, big or small, but what would that breeder do with all of those spider and normal babies? I'd be willing to try a few Spider X Spider pairings when my spider female grows up but I don't think it would be wise for any one breeder to devote so much time and resources to such a thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Not that anyone has ever been able to prove. Which probably means they do not exist. (Homozygous Pinstripes have been proven, so Pinstripe is a dominant mutation).

While listed as dominant on many sites, Spider is probably not a dominant mutation. Instead, it may be co-dominant with a lethal super form, so that homozygous spiders never hatch.
It's not unusual for an egg or two to die during incubation, so it's unlikely it would be noticed.

---

Dominant Pin? Can you post links to this? Are there any known defects with them? Who usually has them available?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by that_dc5

Dominant Pin? Can you post links to this? Are there any known defects with them? Who usually has them available?

---

There are no links, just talk to brian directly, he hatched something like 27 pins from the same snake. Its the only one I know of. If there was defects it wouldn't be dominant. There are none avaliable. All it means is you have a pin looking animal that always passes a pin gene, why does everyone thing this is so different. Super pastels always pass a pastel gene, super pins always pass a pin gene. Difference is pin does look different in either form, so its classfied as dominant. Since they dont look different, its not really a project worth going after, all the work time and resources and you get an animal that looks exactly the same. Don't plan on seeing many of them

A lot of interesting concepts, unfortunately none proven true.
You can't count Brian hiding his project claiming people are giving him crap over it.
If I had a homozygous pinstripe I'd do everything I could to document and show why it's dominate.
Proof is hard to dispute, bring on the proof and more people might listen to this theory of a homozygous pinstripe or spider.

While I understand people want to prove a homo spider, as Randy says, the longer it goes the less likely there is such a thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

If there was defects it wouldn't be dominant.

---

How does that even make sense? Super Black Pastel's (which I'd consider dominant because 100% of the offspring are Black Pastels) have a defect, duck bills. Super Pastel x Super Pastel/Pastel supposedly can be born with defects....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

All it means is you have a pin looking animal that always passes a pin gene, why does everyone thing this is so different. Super pastels always pass a pastel gene, super pins always pass a pin gene. Difference is pin does look different in either form, so its classfied as dominant.

---

I understand how it works just fine, I don't need help with explaining it. I understand genetics 100%. And I understand that a super pin would still look like a regular pin. Never said it would look different.... So what you're saying is you'd consider a Super Pastel co-dominant because it looks different than the Pastel? That doesn't make sense either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Since they dont look different, its not really a project worth going after, all the work time and resources and you get an animal that looks exactly the same.

---

That is a matter of opinion. Suppose you put a Super Lesser to a Pin. Only 50% of the offspring should have the pin gene. Where as BEL x Super Pin would = ALL Lesser Pins... Much more valuable to me. Pin x Normal = 50% normals 50% pins. Normals are pretty worthless for selling. Super Pin x Normal = all Pins, much greater return here.:gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by that_dc5

Super Pin x Normal = all Pins, much greater return here.:gj:

---

Actually a super pin or a super spider would speed up the decline in value of those morphs.
IF there was such a thing as a super pin or super spider, already two of the most produced morphs out there, the market for those two morphs would crash even further than it already has.
I would think anyone producing spider combos and pinstripe combos would not want a homozygous version proven :confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

There are no links, just talk to brian directly, he hatched something like 27 pins from the same snake. Its the only one I know of. If there was defects it wouldn't be dominant. There are none avaliable. All it means is you have a pin looking animal that always passes a pin gene, why does everyone thing this is so different. Super pastels always pass a pastel gene, super pins always pass a pin gene. Difference is pin does look different in either form, so its classfied as dominant. Since they dont look different, its not really a project worth going after, all the work time and resources and you get an animal that looks exactly the same. Don't plan on seeing many of them

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Actually a super pin or a super spider would speed up the decline in value of those morphs.
IF there was such a thing as a super pin or super spider, already two of the most produced morphs out there, the market for those two morphs would crash even further than it already has.
I would think anyone producing spider combos and pinstripe combos would not want a homozygous version proven :confused:

---

I understand your theory there and it makes sense. Only thing I can say there is that since they are such a common morph, their value is already decreasing every second. So granted their value would take a big hit but that's coming regardless. So even if they end up costing what Pastels are at now, their combos are still valuable and even a $100 pin is worth more than a $30 normal. But I am not trying to change your mind, you make a great point and I respect it completely.

[QUOTE=that_dc5;1742714]How does that even make sense? Super Black Pastel's (which I'd consider dominant because 100% of the offspring are Black Pastels) have a defect, duck bills. Super Pastel x Super Pastel/Pastel supposedly can be born with defects....



I understand how it works just fine, I don't need help with explaining it. I understand genetics 100%. And I understand that a super pin would still look like a regular pin. Never said it would look different.... So what you're saying is you'd consider a Super Pastel co-dominant because it looks different than the Pastel? That doesn't make sense either.



You obviously don't understand gentetics 100%. A super Black pastel is not a Dominant gene it is a Homo versus the Black Pastel being a het. Making this by definition a co-dom gene, meaning that when two Hets(black pastels) breed they can produce a Super or Homo (super Black Pastel) version that looks differant then the hets. To be considered Dominant there can or can not be a super or Homo version, if there is it will look exactly as the het version does. Your analogy to super pastel vs pastel is flawed because you are comparing a co-dom homo to a co-dom het, just doesn't make sense. I think you are confusing the term dominant and homogezyneous, they are not one and the same.

So you're saying you'd call a Super Black Pastel a co-dominant snake, even though when paired to a normal you'd get nothing but Black Pastels? The same as if there was a homozygous Spider, you put to a normal and get nothing but Spiders. Because I wouldn't.