boas cohabitating with pythons

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Originally Posted by avriette

The boa is quite easy going, and the pythons are, well, sweet like ball pythons are. It's kind of cute, they're inseparable.

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I agree with what everone else has suggested, i dont think that it is a good idea to house your snakes together. First off in the wild a rtb and bp dont even really live at all near eachother. South america vs. africa. In the wild ball pythons live in burrows of rodents or termite mounds. They live by themselves in the burrow. The only times that two bp's would "live together" would be during the breeding season when they mate. But besides that they are solitary snakes. And you said its cute how they inseparable but they dont really have a choice to be seperate since theyre in the same tank competing for a hot spot or a hide.
Just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by womsterr

My point is this. When one first becomes interested in exotics, you need to do the research BEFORE you bring them home, not after. I have taken in too many sick and dying exotics that were brought home by folks with good intentions but a "ready, shoot, aim" approach to animal husbandry. These have included both balls and boas (add parrots and dogs as well). Perhaps that is why i don't demonstrate much patience for poor husbandry.

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While I can completely sympathize with your frustrations, and agree wholeheartedly with the desire for people to do things responsibly and in the right order...it's very counterproductive to get an aggressive attitude when someone finally does come here (or someplace like here) looking for help.

The harsh reply doesn't CHANGE anything that a person has already done in the past...but it CAN change how well they perceive the advice people are trying to give them NOW and how willing they might be to consider and accept it.

Just something to think about. :)

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

If you don't have the money to house them separately then don't purchase animals.

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

. DO NOT house together it is pointless. They gain nothing from it and you could find yourself in the same situation. If you don't have the money to house them seperately then don't purchase animals. Husbandry should be figured out before you buy animals.

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:gj: X2

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Originally Posted by wwmjkd

where are you looking? unless they are very young neonates right out of the egg or adults that are breeding, I can't recall ever seeing chondros (or any morelia for that matter) cohabitating.

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These were on the first page on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uiyFOXaK98
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJliuALcXTY

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you've been given some good advice, but ultimately it's up to you whether you intend to put it into practice. I'm not sure your best angle is to try to look for inconsistencies in the husbandry of other animals that don't pertain to your collection.

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I hope I haven't given the impression that I'm disagreeing with everyone. I am just trying to figure out how I became so misguided (frankly, I thought I was being pretty responsible!), and it looks like there's a lot of bad information out there. As I said earlier, when I started keeping snakes, I couldn't hop on a forum and ask people who had snakes. My first ball python was a rescue, as was my second. And both were full-grown. So what little I knew, I learned from the people who had been keeping them (which, in hindsight, was not a great idea) and from the pet stores where I purchased their rats -- which, of course, I fed them live because I didn't know any better! On this second piece, I thought I was doing the right thing by asking people that were (clearly) more knowledgeable than I was. I just started looking around for people who were already keeping snakes, and who had been keeping them longer. There isn't an inherent "rating based on correctness" on Youtube, so I was misled.

Particularly moving are these couple:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1t0hlS1mqY (enormous argentine boas)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPq80TaeEAA (a pair of green anacondas that seem to be kept together)

I saw them and thought, huh, so snakes with that much of a size discrepancy seem to be doing okay together. That's all. I hope you can see it would be easy to be misled. When I had "done this research," I thought to myself, well, I should probably go ask b-p.net what the correct way to do this is, because I don't want to put them together the wrong way -- never questioning the notion that they should be together in the first place. Does that make sense?

I also want to make clear this isn't about money or anything, I just thought it would be easier to clean one tank at a time instead of two (or three!). Clearly, it's not a good idea to have them all in one enclosure.

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Originally Posted by avriette

These were on the first page on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uiyFOXaK98
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJliuALcXTY



I hope I haven't given the impression that I'm disagreeing with everyone. I am just trying to figure out how I became so misguided (frankly, I thought I was being pretty responsible!), and it looks like there's a lot of bad information out there. As I said earlier, when I started keeping snakes, I couldn't hop on a forum and ask people who had snakes. My first ball python was a rescue, as was my second. And both were full-grown. So what little I knew, I learned from the people who had been keeping them (which, in hindsight, was not a great idea) and from the pet stores where I purchased their rats -- which, of course, I fed them live because I didn't know any better! On this second piece, I thought I was doing the right thing by asking people that were (clearly) more knowledgeable than I was. I just started looking around for people who were already keeping snakes, and who had been keeping them longer. There isn't an inherent "rating based on correctness" on Youtube, so I was misled.

Particularly moving are these couple:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1t0hlS1mqY (enormous argentine boas)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPq80TaeEAA (a pair of green anacondas that seem to be kept together)

I saw them and thought, huh, so snakes with that much of a size discrepancy seem to be doing okay together. That's all. I hope you can see it would be easy to be misled. When I had "done this research," I thought to myself, well, I should probably go ask b-p.net what the correct way to do this is, because I don't want to put them together the wrong way -- never questioning the notion that they should be together in the first place. Does that make sense?

I also want to make clear this isn't about money or anything, I just thought it would be easier to clean one tank at a time instead of two (or three!). Clearly, it's not a good idea to have them all in one enclosure.

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Its very tempting in life to see someone doing something with no apparent side affects and think its OK to do the same. Its completely understandable that you were mislead. The only way to try and minimize the number of times this happens is to be skeptical. Just today someone told me you "You know the word golf comes from the phrase Gentlemen Only, Ladies Forbidden." I said "Sounds plausible but I am a bit skeptical. I will have to look that up." 10 minutes later the person came back and said "Yeah I looked it up, you were right to be skeptical." You were right to go looking for answers. I am glad you got good info in the end.

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Originally Posted by Vypyrz

What are you feeding the boa? Twice a week is a little much. I suggest a 7-10 day feeding schedule. 2500 grams seems a little over weight for a 3 foot long snake....

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Actually, I misremembered. I just weighed him and he's just 895 grams. Not sure how that happened?? Must be going senile.

So the animals in the you tube videos (because everyone in a youtube video is an expert...) aren't even the same species you're talking about. Those animals might be together for breeding, "socialization".... or they may be housed together. We don't know.

I'll put my canned reply on why you shouldnt house two ball pythons together here, just for kicks, but in short, no, you shouldn't house these animals together.

Regarding the boa and the BPs together specifically... Boas get big, even a male boa will get about 2x the size of a ball python easy. Would you want to live in a room with someone 2x your size? Their requirements aren't even the same. Balls are native to Africa, Standard boas are native to South America.

Regarding your large enclosure; ball pythons typically do much better with smaller more cramped enclosures, boas usually do better where they have room to move around.

Standard (red tail, etc) boas can be asymptomatic carriers for a disease called IBD, inclusion body disease. Search the forum for it, the results can be devastating to your collection. There are also other communicable diseases that can be spread around, Respiratory infections, other bacterial or fungal infections, etc.

CANNED REPLY:
To quote another post on the exact same topic (PS: search feature is your friend). Take this post with a grain of salt, but please understand why it is better for your animals to each have a home, than to have to share one. (This post was also made for someone who was already housing animals together).

NO, you should not.

it is NOT good for the animals to be housed together. There are a multitude of reasons for this, including but not limited to the following;

1. You didnt quarantine your new addition and if its carrying something, chances are your older animal has it too anything from parasites, worms, sickness and disease, (even if there arent any symptoms yet)

2. Did you get these animals sexed from a reliable source? Or are you trusting the pet store.. This means you could have two opposite genders and you have the chance that they could now breed early causing the female (if one is a female) problems and possibly killing her

3. Cannibalism is known to occur in a few documented cases involving BPs

4. If one of your animals is sick, you probably wont know which one because you cant tell their feces/urates/regurges apart

5. If one gets sick, they both get sick and now you have to spend 2x the amount of money in vet care.

6. Actions we see as "cuddling" are actually one snake competing with the other. They both may be eating fine now but how long is that going to last? The smaller one is especially at risk for stress which could lower immune levels. They will constantly be competing for the best hide spots and best heating spots, etc.

housing two animals in one enclosure when they arent social isnt something novice keepers should do. Each animal should have their own space to thrive. If cost is the problem then maybe you need to take one back or rehome him until you can provide a sutible environment for any animal that comes into your home.

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I hope you understand i'm not trying to be snarky, you came here asking good questions and you look like someone who wants to do the best for your animals.

avriette, i understood what you meant. I have often seen GTPs housed together as juveniles or babies.
In pet stores especially. They are just trying to save space, and it IS a money thing for them. Boo to them! *lol*

When we first got our first ball python a year ago, my husband was convinced that if we got another they could live together. I go around and around with him about this, as i insist they all be separated.
It is totally what someone else said about say, dog food, though. I work at a pet store, and one thing that has happened over the years is that people have realized what companies have been putting in dog food...and are now going for better ingredients, which has led to healthier animals, and longer lives.
I think the same thing is with the snakes...people have learned that housing separately is better for husbandry.

I have to say though, that i have been to a few popular zoos, and i honestly can't remember seeing snakes housed together. San Deigo, Santa Barbara, L.A., Portland, and recently to a few in Australia. I don't *Remember* but this was over a few years, and before i was really into snakes. Mostly though, my old photos and my old memory says housed alone :)
It's harsh on the house space, but totally worth it to have all the snakes...muwah!

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Originally Posted by avriette

So I have your average RTB (well, he's not average, he's awesome), who is about 9 months old. He's three-ish feet long and about 2.5kg. I also have two ball pythons, a male and a female, who are now almost two years old. The male is a little less than 2kg, and the female is right about as big as the boa.

I'd like to keep them in the same tank, as I have a very large tank for the pythons (who have lived together for most of their lives). Mainly, I'd like them in the same tank as it's quite large and simplifies my life, and the boa is now getting too big for the tank he is in. The boa is eating twice a week, and the pythons are eating once a week (when they're not being moody, but it's winter, and they kind of slow down in winter).

Anyways, I've kept the boa segregated from the pythons for purposes of quarantine. He's quite healthy and the pythons are of course healthy. I'm comfortable with them coming into contact (I've been careful to clean up before handling them in sequence, before cleaning tanks, etc, so they haven't been introduced in any sense yet), but I am wondering if there are any sort of procedures for making sure nobody gets unhappy in the tank.

The boa is quite easy going, and the pythons are, well, sweet like ball pythons are. It's kind of cute, they're inseparable.

Oh, the other thing is, seems to me now would be a good time to introduce them, given the boa is only going to get bigger, and the pythons are going to grow into their five-to-six-feet while he does that. I'd rather not introduce an eight foot snake to a pair of five-foot-snakes.

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I was reading through this And I will say you have gotten ALOT of good info. And I will as well, we all make.mistakes. I've personally owned reptiles as pets for under a year. BUT! I learned all of my.knowledge from a pet store I volunteered at... some right some wrong, that's how life is.

To housing snakes together... its just not worth it in the end.. we currently house together two.males BECAUSE we took in our pastel and HAD a tank for him. Sadly.my fiancée destroyed it... so How we have two snakes housed together, and yes I'll be honest they feed better, but I believe they're trying to outcompete each other.

In the end, just house them all by themselves and you'll do.just fine. The only way around this is when you're breeding.

Just NEVER, NEVER house different species of snakes together. Would you house a BP with a king cobra? ;)