Spread the Word -- Don't Freeze Sick Snakes!

I'm an idiot and hit the button too many times...duplicate post, DOH!

I think this is another thread of overthinking things.. too bad kevorkian is dead we really could use him right now

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Originally Posted by snake lab

I think this is another thread of overthinking things.. too bad kevorkian is dead we really could use him right now

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Second that ^^^. Do what needs done given the situation at hand and leave it at that.

Euthanasia is done to prevent the animal from suffering, NOT to make us humans feel better. Reptiles aren't like mammals. In my opinion, instantaneous destruction of the brain is the only guaranteed humane method of euthanasia for reptiles. I have questions about how well the drugs typically used for euthanasia work on reptiles, and I do not think they have been sufficiently tested on them. Others may disagree, but that is my opinion.
Decapitation followed by pithing sounds backwards to me...decapitation is far from painless, because the head continues to live afterward until the brain is destroyed.

I think reptile keepers need to keep firmly in mind the reptile's experience...and not their own.

We've already had the discussion pertaining to reptiles and pain. They obviously have a much higher pain tolerance and/or their brain does not register pain in the same way that we do, otherwise they would recoil and writhe in pain in the wild if injured. This would slow them down making them an easy target. Their brains are quite simple in comparison to a mammal. They are built tougher. They also barely flinch during surgery or injections. We know that anesthesia is almost useless on herps and more must be used for them than a mammal of the same size. Exotics vets who are aware of this will almost always recommend against anesthesia for a herp unless it is absolutely 100% necessary. We know there are more possible side effects.

These are things proven by veterinarians over the years so putting a snake down is not that simple. It's also known that even if you gas a snake to put it down, there is no guarantee that it is actually dead. They can take 3x as long to wake up from that as a mammal and you could have just thrown away a sleeping snake. Do you want to take that risk?? The internal functions can slow down so much that it won't even register to the vet..

I have to agree that in a case like that you really should put your Ewwww, yuck! How awful! Squeamish issues aside and take care of it yourself, the quickest and most painless way possible. That is what you want for your pet right?

Unfortunately, I think this entire thread is pointless because if you think about it, everyone on here who has ever had a very Ill snake or one that was badly injured that ended up dying, had no intention of putting it out of it's misery..

They just kept trying to treat it and it eventually died. Isn't that what everyone is going to do? Even if you have to treat a recurring issue for a year, you will, and you'll just let it eventually die. That's what humans do. We don't let anything go. We force them to suffer to benefit us. We treat them no matter what's wrong or how long just because we will not let them go.

So isn't this thread kind of useless?

Let the flaming begin....

Sorry, but no, I have had to put down a few snakes. Occasionally hatchlings emerge with non-survivable deformities, and I had one snake that developed cancer.

Anyone who's breeding snakes will eventually have to face that same issue--not every egg will develop into a perfect baby. Whether it's due to a problem with the incubator, or simply a random mutation or developmental issue, every once in a while, a hatchling will come out kinked, with fused body parts, missing eyes, with jaw deformities, etc. Not everything goes perfectly in reproduction.

If there is a chance they can be saved, it's worth trying--if you know that there isn't, then it's best to put them down humanely so that they won't suffer.

As for how reptiles sense pain...one or two accidentally pinched tails later, I have to disagree with you completely. There's nothing wrong with their ability to sense pain. Adrenalin dulls pain, so of course an animal that is frightened and defensive is not going to waste time reacting to the pain beyond the initial flinch. Neither will any mammal, bird, or even a human. How many times have you heard of someone getting their foot bitten off by a shark, and swimming straight to shore? Do they spend time 'writhing in pain'? Heck no, there's no time for that in a survival situation.

Add to that the fact that reptiles (like many other animals) will instinctively seek to hide any signs of weakness, and of course you aren't going to see the kind of outward signs you were looking for. You won't see them in a dog, either.

Im just a little curious as to how so many people know what a snake feels during different ways of putting them down. From all the different oppinions im hearing the end result is there is no way to humanely put them down. Look you owe it to the animal to end the suffering if it comes to that point. Regardless if it take 3 seconds longer doing it one way or another isnt the point. If it has to be done then do it quick. How do we know they suffer in the freezer? How do why know they dont go into a full hypothermic shutdown free of pain? How do we know cutting the head off that the snake suffers for minutes afterwards? I would like to know who is talking to these snakes to know how they feel. When i am faced with the crappy part of breeding snakes i put them down quick. I sure as hell am not going to say how i do it cause im sure someone here will start a 3 page rant about how im inhumane so im gonna chalk this thread up to another thread of overthinking things

People "know" how the snakes die by scientific exploration in how the bodies react to different stimulation and situations. The freezing info is in some studies somewhere. You could google up that. It's not hard to see a head that responds to movement and touch AFTER being seperated from the body completely, and understand that it can feel if it can respond to outside stimulius.

Foschi: And I've had to "put down" snakes and other pets in the past, thank you so much for assumptions that no one here has ever done the humane thing. This past year saw my cat of 24 years put to sleep at the vet, and more than one misformed hatchling killed instantly to prevent that "long suffering death". If you consider a disagreement a flame, then here's one for you.

I feel anything instant = humane. Doesn't matter if it's ugly or brutal looking... if it's instant for the animal, that's more important than if it's pretty to watch.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

People "know" how the snakes die by scientific exploration in how the bodies react to different stimulation and situations. The freezing info is in some studies somewhere. You could google up that. It's not hard to see a head that responds to movement and touch AFTER being seperated from the body completely, and understand that it can feel if it can respond to outside stimulius.

Foschi: And I've had to "put down" snakes and other pets in the past, thank you so much for assumptions that no one here has ever done the humane thing. This past year saw my cat of 24 years put to sleep at the vet, and more than one misformed hatchling killed instantly to prevent that "long suffering death". If you consider a disagreement a flame, then here's one for you.

I feel anything instant = humane. Doesn't matter if it's ugly or brutal looking... if it's instant for the animal, that's more important than if it's pretty to watch.

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I completely agree with your last statement as you can figure out by my comment about putting away ones ewww yuck that's horrible thing.. As for the rest, I was referring to the threads that are actually posted here.. The breeders never talk about putting down their animals do they? Of course not. Otherwise they would be argued with by the many here who are against the quickest and most painless way of putting them down (makes no sense I know). Isn't that happened in this thread after all?

Instead all I ever see talked about is keepers of one to a few pets where one is very sick or injured or whatever. I've seen cases being treated over and over and over and the animal dies.. That is the point I'm making.

My post was not for the breeders (like you and I) who have dealt with things like malformation, failure to thrive, emergency surgery, etc... Those who I'd expect to be intelligent enough to read between the lines on this forum where we ALL use to be on the same page more or less..

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Originally Posted by FalconPunch

^^^ That's very true. Watch this video. Watch all of it, the head still gets defensive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aRi9_Ppepo

granted it's an alligator but that's splitting hairs.

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And now for something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT: http://youtu.be/CinfuRwQlO0

I just had to offset that video with something adorable...