Is the BP Market ready for another breeder?

Ive heard of people using their normals as prey items. There are plenty of animals that eat snakes including other snakes. Id much rather see a ball python being eaten than frozen because of his color mutation, or lack thereof. Ive been fortunate not to worry about this subject. I wholesale all of my normals out.

People want is name because they dont want to support (buy from him). If you are so against what hedoes why let all us buy from being we dont know who your speaking of. If you loomat it that way you do support him because you may not buy from him, but you will let every othet member on bp.net buy from him.

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Originally Posted by Atherosdragon

I didn't realize that by saying I know someone who is a breeder who freezes their normals i would have to give you their name or have them come onto the site to get flogged by all of you i'll keep it to myself from now on i really am sorry

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My post wasn't directed at you, and I specifically said I didn't want to see a public flogging, just a reasonable explanation.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

I don't make it public knowledge to my neighbors that I keep numerous snakes. Is that because I know my actions are 'wrong'?

Here's a hypothetical:

What if someone wanted to sell off the normals as feeders?

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I'm not saying that everyone needs to make public everything they do, or that everything anyone does in private is wrong. I'm simply saying that if someone is completely unwilling to disclose reasons behind their actions, or even disclose actions at all, especially in.a consumer based industry, there might be a reason for it. As to the hypothetical, I would say that breeding snakes for feeders is a perfectly valid and worthwhile explanation for why one might cull snakes. I'm merely saying that if there is such a reasonable explaination, the breeder shouldn't be afraid to share it with the community.

Anyhow, I was never trying to sound aggressive or demanding in any way, just giving my input. No hard feelings towards anyone posting here.

Cheers,
-Matt

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Originally Posted by snake lab

I dont know of any breeder freezing healthy animals at all. There is always a market for normal balls in the pet trade at pet stores etc. I usually wholesale my normals to local pet stores or sell them off on craigslist or in groups on ks. I think if your planning on breeding just to produce normals to try and make money then this may not be the hobby for you. There is a market for every morph out there. If your looking to get into it to make money then you have to work with animals that are worth money to begin with. I agree that if your gonna make claims you need to provide proof otherwise keep it to yourself cause noone is gonna agree with your claims on an online forum without proof. I understand not wanting to chuck anyone under the bus but you gotta keep it to yourself if your not willing to provide the proof. All the breeders i know love what they do and have more respect for the animals to just freeze healthy animals just to cull out the so called worthless animals. Im not saying it doesnt happen and if it is happenning and you know about it i wouldnt deal with that breeder cause hes obviouslly in it just for his own personal gain and doesnt care at all about his animals so that brings up the issue of if hes breeding quality or not.

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You don't have to believe anything anyone said. We are free to say as we please and don't need to provide proof. This is a forum, which is for people to trade ideas, thoughts, and information. If you choose not to believe that I know a larger scale breeder who does freeze their normals, then so be it. But it is my perogative to mention their name. If anyone finds it offensive then they probably should browse the forums very carefully, because I see many things that may be considered "offensive".

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

Here's a hypothetical:

What if someone wanted to sell off the normals as feeders?

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Being frozen to be shipped out as feeders is a huge difference from freezing them just because you can't sell it (ethically speaking).

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Originally Posted by jmitch

People want is name because they dont want to support (buy from him).

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That would be the reason I would want to know names. I would never want to patronize someone who would euthanize otherwise healthy animals because they didn't fit into their business models.

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Originally Posted by Matt K

My post wasn't directed at you, and I specifically said I didn't want to see a public flogging, just a reasonable explanation.



I'm not saying that everyone needs to make public everything they do, or that everything anyone does in private is wrong. I'm simply saying that if someone is completely unwilling to disclose reasons behind their actions, or even disclose actions at all, especially in.a consumer based industry, there might be a reason for it. As to the hypothetical, I would say that breeding snakes for feeders is a perfectly valid and worthwhile explanation for why one might cull snakes. I'm merely saying that if there is such a reasonable explaination, the breeder shouldn't be afraid to share it with the community.

Anyhow, I was never trying to sound aggressive or demanding in any way, just giving my input. No hard feelings towards anyone posting here.

Cheers,
-Matt

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:gj:

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Originally Posted by Matt K

In regards to dc5 and the breeder he knows that culls normals, I would strongly suggest that if you feel uncomfortable telling us who he is (only assuming it's a he because you referred to him as such in your posts), you have him come on the forums to identify himself.

My thought is that the only reason why this breeder would not make it public knowledge that he culls normals is that he knows that his actions are wrong. If he didn't think it was wrong, he could surely make an argument for himself that would bypass any serious, at at least widespread, condemnation. People should be aware of the practices of breeders that they're buying from, and unless breeders are transparent about these things, there's really no telling. I'm not saying these things because I want to see the guy crucified on the forums, I simply think if one decides to cull normals, they better have a well thought out reason to do so.

Anywho, these are just my thoughts about it. I think a name would be very valuable, as would an explanation from your breeder friend. If the breeder is too afraid or ashamed to do so in a public forum, my only conclusion would be that he himself knows what he's doing is wrong, and doesn't want to lose business as a result of his actions. If even he recognizes that what he is doing is gray, I don't think anyone, friend or foe, should be protecting him.

Cheers,
-Matt

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I understand where you are coming from. ONCE YET AGAIN, I do NOT agree with freezing them. I do feel, normals are valuable, whether it be for breeding purposes or pet purposes. But I will not give out his name, and I will not ask him to come on to the forums for him to state what he does. Who would do that? Lol. Now him freezing normals is not something he goes around saying, but it is something that is done and believe when I say he isn't the only one. I can almost guarantee that many, many, MANY breeders do this. Just because no one has claimed they do, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Unfortunately this hobby deals with live animals and not everyone is always going to agree with certain things being done to these animals and that's ok. Same way normals get frozen, I have also heard of someone having other people sell his defected snakes at shows with no name so they don't know it came from him. Now this is just a story I heard, I don't know the person who supposedly did that, and I don't know how true that story is. But supposedly he had a bunch of women set up a random booth at an expo and sold w.e snakes he had that had deformities and what not, without saying they belonged to him. Do I agree with that? No. Is it right? Not exactly. But it happens. Unfortunately not everyone high integrity when they do things. And this applies to EVERYTHING. Not everyone is an honest, reputable person.

And if I offended anyone, I am sincerely sorry for knowing someone who does that :rolleyes:, I did not choose to meet this person, nor did I ask what he did with his normals. This is just info I came across, and i am sharing it with the forums on a topic related to it. I was using him as an example, I was trying to start a commotion with what he does.

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Originally Posted by that_dc5

I understand where you are coming from. ONCE YET AGAIN, I do NOT agree with freezing them. I do feel, normals are valuable, whether it be for breeding purposes or pet purposes. But I will not give out his name, and I will not ask him to come on to the forums for him to state what he does. Who would do that? Lol. Now him freezing normals is not something he goes around saying, but it is something that is done and believe when I say he isn't the only one. I can almost guarantee that many, many, MANY breeders do this. Just because no one has claimed they do, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Unfortunately this hobby deals with live animals and not everyone is always going to agree with certain things being done to these animals and that's ok. Same way normals get frozen, I have also heard of someone having other people sell his defected snakes at shows with no name so they don't know it came from him. Now this is just a story I heard, I don't know the person who supposedly did that, and I don't know how true that story is. But supposedly he had a bunch of women set up a random booth at an expo and sold w.e snakes he had that had deformities and what not, without saying they belonged to him. Do I agree with that? No. Is it right? Not exactly. But it happens. Unfortunately not everyone high integrity when they do things. And this applies to EVERYTHING. Not everyone is an honest, reputable person.

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...and the ones who are not are the ones that don't need to be in the business of dealing with live animals.

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Originally Posted by mikeandsheleen

...and the ones who are not are the ones that don't need to be in the business of dealing with live animals.

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I am not disputing that either.