I Give Up On FT

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

You guys that feed FT are absolutely lucky 100%.

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I agree 100%! I cannot stand live rodents...Nasty, smelly little creatures. All of my snakes have always gobbled up f/t like they're bon bons. I honestly have never found it to be a hassle at all to get them to take frozen. But I do absolutely take it into consideration when getting a new one if they're on live or frozen. But even if they are live eaters, switching them over really isn't that difficult...Guess I am just lucky.

I've noticed more and more people advertising snakes as ASF eaters. I've pondered that if that becomes too big of a trend, it's gonna be harder and harder to find animals that are permitted to enter my collection. No spolied eaters allowed!...And it really limits the potential of the animal to be able to thrive in anyone's collection down the road.

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

I wish I could have one of those rat racks in my apartment. And OMG rats smell so bad.

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That is why you should breed asf's :) There is still a smell, but NOTHING compared to rats or mice.

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Originally Posted by RyanT

I've noticed more and more people advertising snakes as ASF eaters. I've pondered that if that becomes too big of a trend, it's gonna be harder and harder to find animals that are permitted to enter my collection. No spolied eaters allowed!...And it really limits the potential of the animal to be able to thrive in anyone's collection down the road.

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Rubish.

I have yet to come across an established ASF eater that would switch to normal rats... I have yet to come across an established rat eater that would not switch to ASF's... With my collection and rescue, we are talking about hundreds and hundreds of ball pythons that I have had direct experience with.

The reasons the use of ASF's will continue to grow are:
1.) ASF are the perfect rodent for the hobby breeder to breed because of low odor and low breeding cost.
2.) ASF are the natural prey rodents for ball pythons in the wild.
3.) ASF are hands down, without any doubt the favorite food of ball pythons.
4.) ASF IMHO are nutritionally superior for the ball python. ****Disclaimer**** This is my hypothesis. Don't think an official study has been done on this to date. It seems pretty obvious to me that they have much less fat then normal rats or mice. I can tell you that in a rescue situation where the animal is sick or injured, feeding properly sized ASF's is the first step to getting them back on track... and have had outstanding results with a lot of animals. :)

You are correct mike. Asf are a great prey item for balls. The only problem is they are not as readily availible in alot of areas like rats. As far as frozen goes it may not be a hassle for those with a few animals to feed but when you have alot of animals it is a big hassle. This is why i feed live rats. I also breed my own rodents and i have a 12 by 24 foot shed to breed them in cause yes they smell but its not bad if you clean often. My rodent racks get cleaned every sunday and i dont over populate the tubs so its not bad at all. Asf by far have the least amount of odor. I dont breed asf cause i dont like the fact they chew more, they beat the crap out of eachother and it would take me too long to establish a big enough colony to support the amount of rodents i need every week. I just dont have enough experience with them. I can produce rats with my eyes closed so i stick to what i know

The only reason I really consider feeding FT is the money savings. ~.50 per rat is a lot better than $4. I really don't have a problem feeding live. It's just the expense that bothers me right now.

I do wonder though how many breeding pairs of rats it would take to feed 3 babies and 4 adults.

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

I have yet to come across an established ASF eater that would switch to normal rats...

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Is that what you actually meant, not "wouldn't switch to normal rats"? Cause if so, that's exactly the issue I see with them from my particular feeding policy standpoint. I have no personal experience with ASFs at all.

I feel your pain. I started breeding rodents because I had around 40 - 50 + balls that wouldn't take f/t. Well, breeding rodents got old quick, so I sold the balls and got boas instead. I sure don't have any issues with f/t now. :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Rubish.

I have yet to come across an established ASF eater that would switch to normal rats... I have yet to come across an established rat eater that would not switch to ASF's... With my collection and rescue, we are talking about hundreds and hundreds of ball pythons that I have had direct experience with.

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I have.. I have a hand full of snakes that would only eat asf's from the time they hatched until I made some husbandry changes now they are rat machines. I had a Spider that has only eaten ASF's for the last 4 years switch to slamming rats, I have a Calico female that was sold to me as a juvi that would only eat ASF's has been slamming rats for months now, Mojo female and het peid female all were ASF only wouldn't even touch mice are now pounding rats, I have a 2004 Hypo male that was a mouser for the person before me only ate ASF's for me and now is railing rats ..

I can be done but it take time, timing and patients. I only have one snake I'm still working on getting to take rats.. We'll get there.. :D

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Originally Posted by RyanT

Is that what you actually meant, not "wouldn't switch to normal rats"? Cause if so, that's exactly the issue I see with them from my particular feeding policy standpoint. I have no personal experience with ASFs at all.

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Yeah, I avoid ASF eaters because it's so much easier to find standard norway rats. Having a BP on ASFs is kind of like having a BP on mice. It's just much more convenient to have one that takes regular rats. And from a business point of view, I wouldn't want to sell people BPs that only eat ASFs, especially if that person is a newbie that would have no clue where to get an ASF.

My only experience with ASFs was a few brief months in which I was breeding them. They were absolutely vicious little buggers, and I got horrible bites from them. Doesn't happen with my norway rats, so I won't be switching anytime soon, despite the odor difference. I've also found that norway rats are more convenient because you can feed them off at a younger age, so less waiting time, and generally less dangerous because they are younger.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

Yeah, I avoid ASF eaters because it's so much easier to find standard norway rats. Having a BP on ASFs is kind of like having a BP on mice. It's just much more convenient to have one that takes regular rats. And from a business point of view, I wouldn't want to sell people BPs that only eat ASFs, especially if that person is a newbie that would have no clue where to get an ASF.

My only experience with ASFs was a few brief months in which I was breeding them. They were absolutely vicious little buggers, and I got horrible bites from them. Doesn't happen with my norway rats, so I won't be switching anytime soon, despite the odor difference. I've also found that norway rats are more convenient because you can feed them off at a younger age, so less waiting time, and generally less dangerous because they are younger.

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I'll bloster this by saying the only up side to ASF's vs Rats is the ASF's never get to big for a Ball python.. but that isn't a big enough up tick for me.. LOL

Is there really much of a nutritional difference between live and f/t? I feed my bp F/T but have been thinking of going to live if there is a benifit.