Making sure everything is Legit

Water that big with objects submersed needs to be cleaned and changed DAILY. As the snake will go into it.

You dont drink your bath water do you? Snakes have to if not changed daily

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

Yea Foschi, I don't like to assume, so I just put it out there, but I am a little worried.

I however did not know ball pythons were at risk for drowning. Good to know :gj:

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Well, I think it should be put out there more because it's such a small baby. I noticed in the video that there is quite a lip the BP would need to get it's head over to be able to get out of the water area if it decided to go for a swim.

If made to exert them selves, BPs can tire quickly. You wouldn't want that little one to not be able to get out of the water before it got tired. For example... I made a short video and posted it of a butter BP slithering on a micro fleece blanket. She couldn't actually get anywhere because it was so slippery. It was funny. In the first short vid she was moving very fast but then I took a second vid (both very short YouTube vids) and by the end of the second one, she was so tired she had pretty much stopped.

As a safeguard, I suggest reading through the excellent care sheet for BPs posted as a sticky in the husbandry section. It explains about needing a thermostat (plug the under tank heater into this then plug the thermostat into the wall) to set and control the heat.

Then if you run to Walmart, for only a few $$ in the hardware/tool section where the thermometers are, pick up an "Accurite weather station" it measures 2 temperatures and humidity. It has a probe on a cord. You place the entire unit in the tank on the cool side. Run the probe cord to the hot side. Place the probe under the bedding, directly on the glass, just above the under tank heater.

On the screen the "inside" temp reading is you cool side temp. The "outside" reading is your hot side/probe reading. Then the humidity.

Hot side should be 89/91 roughly and cool side/ambient air temp should be 79/81 roughly.

Humidity is best 55% and up but not more than 70%.

I've included a pic of one of my accurites that I've used with my incubator..

http://tapatalk.com/mu/a6898c95-d02a-51bd.jpg

That accurite looks pretty nifty. I think I will run and get one tomorrow.
As for the water I'll re-organize the rocks into a more gradual ramp like structure on top of draining a half of it so it is more shallow.

But when it comes to the water quality, In the care sheet from where I bought her it says to "replace the water atleast once a week or when it hase been sullied"
I would imagine my water would be cleaner than most other peoples due to the fact that there is more of it being fully circulated and filtered, rather than a water dish that holds stagnant water.

keep the feedback coming guys. I want it to be the perfect home for her. I am very persistent when it comes to my pets :D

Your theory sounds like it would work but in reality, it will not. The filter's purpose is to build a colony of beneficial bacteria much like in a fish tank, except I'm guessing it is not cycled, which means the water will just build up ammonia if the snake goes into it, and it would leach the oils off the snake making it harder for it to shed. But back on the ammonia thing, even if the filter was established, you'd still be getting nitrates and that is still waste. The filter in reality isn't helping much, other than adding oxygen to the water which is unneeded.

Honestly your set up is amazing, but not for a ball python.

Your water will stay clean until your snake goes in the water, and at that point it may no longer be clean. I would do away with the water completely, and just use a water dish. Like I said love it, but not for a ball python.

The quality care sheet is referencing to a water dish, not a "pond" of sorts that you have established. Something they won't be soaking in. Soaking is not needed for balls, and they will only do it in the case of low humidity or mites (they may go for a dip besides that, but it isn't needed).

Thanks for being such a good sport thus far by the way.

Here is the thing though... BPs are notorious for going to the bathroom in water. If they have a large enough bowl, they will sometimes use it like a toilet. Likewise, usually whenever someone gives their BP a soak due to a bad shed or mites, the water usually triggers a "movement".

BPs don't poop small. There is dog-like poop, solid white or yellow urates, and liquid urine. Imagine that in your water.

I havnt even seen her taking a dip yet. But I have caught her drinking it.

You obviously know the ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate cycle, and for that I give you props.
The thing about the filter is that it doesnt have a bio filter built in, and the bio is the stuff that houses the bacteria that breaks down the ammonia into nitrites and nitrates.
Instead it has a carbon filter. The Carbon is what absorbs all the bio molecules by binding to them chemicaly. So in that sense I would imagine it is improving the water quality.

Many of you are against the pond. And if it comes down to it I will tear it out.
However, I am determined to try to make it work if I can. I just want my snake to be happy and healthy.


Thanks to you guys for all the advice and patience
I am determined to do what is right for her.

I agree it's gorgeous but you are setting yourself up for problems. That tank is going to be incredibly hard to do complete disinfects with. All animals including reptiles have a plethora of bacteria and gut flora. Repeated exposure to even a small
Amount of it can create a "super bug" without regular disinfecting. Maybe it's just me but that tank looks like itll be a pain in the arse to take apart and bleach out. When one of them
Goes poop in their space they drag it all around, sit in it etc. Every time she goes you'll have to clean the water out, disinfect the rocks, and clean anywhere else poo may have gotten. There's alot of places in that cage bacteria can harbor, and grow. Seems like eventually you could have a scale rot issue, or other bacteria or fungal thing goin on. I would take safe, and clean over those possibilities. The first time you have to clean poop up out of there or disinfect the cage you're going to be frustrated.
It is smokin gorgeous though. It's just not the best set up for a ball.
Sorry... Just my .02c from my experiences. I learned the hard way with stuff like that. You mind as well save yourself the trouble.


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Give it a go if you want. We're just saying it's not exactly the proper environment for a BP. I think it will end up being more hassle than you think.

When you build a natural habitat for say, a sav monitor, you use a few feet of a natural soil mixture with leaf litter and other stuff to encourage natural breakdown and antibacterial properties. It also has all the natural bugs in it for just this purpose.

Dart frog vivs are best with something like ecoearth and a healthy colony of springtails. Which not only feed the frogs, but break down any waste. These types of enclosures are designed to be natural while eliminating the need to ever change the bedding. It's a natural eco system.

Picture this.. BPs in the wild live in termite mounds or stolen rodent burrows. Females rarely ever leave their burrow if food happens by often enough. Males have been known to explore more often but they are solitary until breeding season.

They often only get water from their food or puddles when it rains. They are found in rather hot and dry areas of Africa which is why they spend much of their time in these burrows. Even though they are from a more arid area, they do have a higher humidity requirement than most desert reptiles.

Their humidity requirements are unusual in that they require a decent amount, but unlike some species like bloods, they do not do well in beddings that are meant to stay somewhat damp. Like ecoearth, moistened shredded coco husk, excessive amounts of moss blanketing the floor, etc..

They are very prone to scale rot. If they are laying on a moist surface for an extended period, weeks only, they will get it. It starts with the skin simply looking almost dry. Even though you know it isn't. It progresses into redness, scaling, blisters, infection, etc.

High humidity in the ambient but not an overly humid surface.

So you see, a BP is a species where in the long run, it's nearly impossible to create a terrarium as natural as you want it. You can't add what needs to added to create a natural eco system in the bedding without endangering your snake. So there's no way to make it into something where you wouldn't have to change the bedding often. Meaning you'd have to change out and clean everything in that tank probably monthly. If you got lucky and your BP only went to the bathroom in one corner, you might be able to just spot clean that corner but remember, they do pee also.

Sorry for the long post. Just some food for thought. Like I said. Give it try. I just believe you'll change your mind before too long.

What I would suggest since you really like the water but obviously care about your snake's well being is instead of putting the water directly in there, use a clear plastic container and bury it into the rocks. You could use a clear tub of sorts, I would definitely recommend plastic over glass because it would be really heavy to lift out and change every day. However, I think it would look pretty nice and it would be good for your ball python too. You just have to change it a bit and maybe get more rocks. :)

Perhaps, if you have your heart set on the water feature, you could leave it in but make it so the snake can't get to it.

I know that would be kind of defeating your purpose for having it, but it would be better all around. With enough effort on your part, you could conceivably make a barrier of some sort. Perhaps out of that wonderful plastic mesh used for cross stitch. I used to divide fish tanks with it, so water could pass through but not the fish. In your case, you'd want humidity to pass through but not your snake. You could use the green mesh, and hide it with a small fake vine or two. The only difficulty would be attaching it to the tank. I used simple plastic binder spines, which I silicone in place and just snap the mesh into. In your case, you would certainly have to find a way to make the mesh support the weight of your snake should she make an effort to climb it.

Just some ideas to toy with. It really IS a lovely setup, just not so ideal for your ball.

Gale