The Pros and Cons between Live and Froze!????????????

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Originally Posted by rabernet

After putting both feet in my mouth - I have to say that I agree 100% with Judy's assessment here.

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LOL...we all have to taste a little toe once in a while. :P

The whole thing is an excellent example of how compelling just one side of the story can be, and how quickly it turns out to be nothing but tissue paper when the other side suddenly appears.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Wow. :weirdface

Ok. Seems to me like whatever the initial misunderstanding might have been, we ALL seem to be on the same page about live vs. frozen/thawed now. John presented reasonable arguments about why he advocates f/t and did not seem to express any illogical reasons against feeding live.

Daji, you wanted reassurance (I guess? :confused: ) that your methods of feeding your own snakes were safe. I think we gave that to you. What does it matter what John thinks or does, so long as you know you're doing the best you can for your own animals?

You're right in assuming that MOST of the members here can not read Chinese...however, you two are not the only Chinese speaking members we have and I'm quite sure we can find someone to read any C&P'ed material from the Hong Kong forum. If nothing else, my own sister-in-law is Chinese and I can get a direct translation from her if I need to. ....just saying....

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OK - lunch hour is almost over (aren't you glad?) LOL

My best friend here at work is Taiwanese - I have him translate for me all the time.

In fact, I had to send an e-mail to China today that I wrote in English, and to make sure that they understood my e-mail (it was "warning shot" e-mail that we may be looking for other vendors based on their performance), I asked him to translate to Chinese - so that the e-mail was in both English and Chinese, and there would be no doubt what my message was.

So yes, many of us, while we can't read or speak Chinese, have easy access to individuals who would be happy to assist us.

Hello Judy, rabernet and homegrownscales. Thank you very much for all your reply to this thread. It's a relief for me to read all your recent replys.

I think I should post out the original thread that was written by chinese, then you know how the story begins and I owe you all an apology.

This is a brief translation on the chinese:

The pros and cons of frozen vs live has always been a controversial topic among breeders here and overseas. From most of the reputable ball python breeders that I know of, they feed both live and frozen rodents.

For myself, I do breed my own rodents, and I fed both live/ frozen too. Live are mostly on pinky rats and fuzzy mice, these are mainly for my hatchling ball pythons. When I feed large rats....it needs to be pre killed for sure.

Majority of my ball python are fed on frozen, because I started them on thawn as soon as they were born....normally on the 5th to 6th meals after birth..most of them accept frozen readily.

As for nutrition value, I didn't notice any difference in egg productions or health issues between snakes that are fed on live or frozen. However, I feel that a live rodents eating snake is harder to trigger them in feeding again once they went off fed after breeding season.

In my own opinion, I believe that frozen is an easier way for me to use. I can keep a large amount of rodents in my freezer for a long time , just the same as our frozen meat. During summer, when the live rodents production is low, the frozen rodents will be a good stable food source for my ball python collection. I believe most of the members here has the experience in having difficulties to buy live rodents during the summer in Hong Kong...

I am not against live feeding, but if I were to choose, I would prefer frozen, mainly due to it's convenience issue.

To keep a stable live rodent supply is not easy, where as, keeping a freezer full of frozen rodents is much easier.



近排餵活鼠定雪鼠成了熱話, 在外國也各有支持者, 我認識的有品牌Breeder 中, 大部份活鼠及雪鼠都有餵, (但活鼠是Fuzzy, pinky, 大白一定要pre-kill 的)
我自己也有大量繁殖白鼠, 也是活/ 雪也有用到, 活鼠主要用( pinky rat, Fuzzy mice) 主要是初生球開食用的, 大白成體也一定要 prekill.

我自己絕大部份的球蟒都是吃雪鼠而這是自小養成的習慣, 並不難教, 一般出生後第五至六餐已會吃雪鼠, 吃雪鼠的小球一樣能健康生長

至於, 營養價值方面, 我在繁殖球中, 並沒有發現吃活鼠的蛇產量高一些或健康一些, 相反吃活鼠的球停食後一般較難開口......

對我自己來說, 雪鼠是較方便的, 放在零下-18度的冰箱中可存很久, 跟我們吃的冰鮮肉一樣, 而在夏天時鼠產量較少而蛇的食量增加的情況下, 雪鼠便能確保蛇有足夠的食物了, 相信大家都有遇到買不到鼠的時候...

我並不反對餵活鼠, 但可選擇時我一定會餵雪鼠 :)


要保持長期的活鼠供應並不容易....
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...on/ratbarn.png
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...n/e9f4ec7c.jpg
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...n/391138a9.jpg
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...n/e9f4ec7c.jpg

幾千隻大白一個雪櫃放嗮, 食物來源穩定
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...n/IMG_0944.jpg

Well this all goes to show how one side of the story and how it is potrayed effects our judgements on replies. I personally dont see anything wrong with the advice that you gave, you set up is clean and professional and you seem to be another good breeder like the rest of us bp lovers. I am sorry if anything I said was offensive but I am glad you came to tell your side of the situation which is exactly what I suggested to happen. I appreciate you doing so. I cannot read Chinese and dont have access to someone who does but I have no reason to not believe your translation. So I appreciate you coming here despite many posts against you, to tell the other side which turned out to either be a silly misunderstanding, someone trying to bash, or someone that just really didn't understanding the message you were putting out there. I personally do not see anything wrong with that message. Thank you for taking the time to do so.
Morgan

Thanks John! For the record, my co-worker translated the Chinese and it is accurate as John translated it. :)

To be quite honest I thought this was "bait" when I first started reading.
It just goes to show how twisted something can get when posting on a msg board, this is why I think long and hard about what I post and try (for the most part) to keep it were most people should understand it.
I personally feed both, though f/t is nice because you thaw and throw it in LOL it is so quick and easy.

Two of my snakes will only eat live a Corn an BRB all others Frozen...tried many a time with frozen an there a no go so live for them be it mice, rats or mammates.

There are too many variables. It's not practical for large scale breeders to dangle dead rats and make them dance around for dozens of snakes. For the average pet snake owner, frozen is better just because you can buy in bulk so it's cheaper. Plus it is easier on the sensitivities of you or your family if that's a problem. Occasionally they insist on live so it's fine if supervised. I've never heard of a snake getting serious bites from rodents from normal feeding, it's when they are left alone together for hours.

I prefer f/t simply because it's easier for me to defrost rats than it is to be buying live rats every few days. I'm not any more upset about my snake dispatching a live rodent than I am about setting out mousetraps when the rodents decide to move in each fall.

It's all about convenience for me. I don't have any desire to keep a colony of rats. Even though they don't stink as bad as mice, they still stink.