Bumblebee's are over-rated ?

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Originally Posted by rdoyle

this is the bee I like

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Thank you very much she's a real doll


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I respect the OP's opinion but I have to say the overriding consensus in the Bp world is simple the Bumblebee was a big part of the ball python explosion.

Are there some ugly ones out there definitely but that's the truth of many of mutations out there.;)

The wobble issue is overblown in my opinion one of mine has it but is the most calm and curious Bp in my collection. By the way some normals do it too.

Sad to say, many of the slightly less expensive morphs out there, there are poor examples, good examples and outstanding examples of each.

People just getting in to balls tend to buy whatever is cheapest, and then they produce large numbers of mid to poor quality babies, and the exceptional stuff is few and far between.

Take that big bee, that is to me an outstanding example of the morph, and I would gladly pay anywhere from half again to double the going rate for a snake like that. I saw an amazing bee at a show in December. Big female. 2000+ grams and she was nothing but yellow and white with pattern. Not a fleck of cream or brown anywhere but her pattern. Never seen one so breathtaking. The owner wanted $3000 for her. And I promise you if I had it, she'd have been mine. I don't care if two tables down there was a bigger female for half that, she SURE didn't look like that one!


Same thing with pastels. Sure I can pick up a baby pastel for under $100 all day long, some for under $75. But when I want a pastel, I want a NEON yellow pastel who is going to glow like a sun no matter how old it gets. If that means I'll spend $250 to $350 for said pastel, so be it.

Gale

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Originally Posted by lance

Here is my reasoning okay I love all ball pythons completely BUT the bumblebee is a disappointment its starts as this beautiful baby with bright yellow, blacks, and white then as it matures it gets ugly like the pastel morph and browns out. So I cannot justify them being worth anymore then like $200 the $500 price is insane for an animal that turns to a brown ugly adult at least with the pastels you pay a far price. What is your take on this?

thanks kindly,

Lance

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Lance... I love the point of view! Personally I think in the end all of these animals are worth about $150.00 each since that's about what it costs to make a Ball Python in our indoor collections. Since this subculture has been built on high prices getting lower over time there MUST be a new hot thing of value for us to sell.

Can I pose a challenge to you? Shop for an absolutely knock out Bumblebee and be willing to pay TOP dollar for it. I think you'd be surprised with what it grows up to be! I think most of what you see as a brown adult is just something that someone bought that wasn't really TOP quality!

Bumblebees have gotten better through the generations. I remember being VERY happy with the one that I bought from Greg Graziani for $25,000.00 back in 2005! Yes he has browned a bit but he's been a proven breeder since 2006 but some of his kids are KNOCKOUTS! I have some Bees that are just as bright as they were as babies and they are breeding and laying eggs.

Remember... Ball Pythons typically darken more in a breeding program. The various stresses of birth and weight loss in a female and the strain of a breeding season on a male that has to breed 5-10 females 3-4 times each!

Just my -0.02 :P

I see the op’s point there are some awful examples out there, it’s a matter of selective breeding. If you want a great bee that holds it color get a lemon bee from N.E.R.D, but expect to pay $800 or more. I personally believe that if a person is going to breed they should get the best quality healthy animals that they can and breed to improve the line. Unfortunately a lot of people for one reason or another got some subpar animals and chose to breed them. What you have to remember is that 8 years ago pastels where going for well over $1000.00 and those weren’t anything like the lemons that are being produced now, just some food for thought.

I agree with those saying crappy pastels produce crappy bees . . . you really do get what you pay for.

I don't have a bee, but I do have a (IMHO) very nice bright pastel male. I specifically went for an adult with nice color when purchasing him. I did not even look for a baby when it came to a pastel, because I knew I wanted a quality pastel that held his color as an adult. I don't mind saying I paid $175 for him either. I'm not sure if that is considered "expensive" for an adult pastel (approx. 2 years old at time of purchase), but I really don't care. When I saw his pics, I was very happy with him, and I didn't consider $175 to be out of line on cost for a pastel of his quality. And I still don't. I wanted a bright one, and sometimes you just have to pay for quality.

Here's his pic:
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d.../BrightBoy.jpg
Hopefully he will produce some quality offspring in the future, maybe even some bees. ;)

Btw, FreakieFrog that bee is very nice!

I paid $350 Canadian for my Pastel(avatar pic) and I could have got a female for $100 less but I wanted to make a great bee as I love them! There are other morphs that I think are not worth the price but that's why there is so many choices out there and thats why balls are so popular! There is a morph for everyone!

In my opinion you get what you pay for. If you pay $300 for a bumblebee don't expect the adult version to look stunning. But, I have seen some BEAUTIFUL adult bees that as babies might go for $500-$600. The more expensive you go the better your adult will look IMO. Also the bumblebee combined with other morphs like the lemon blast or yellow belly look amazing! And if you buy from a breeder that has a great bloodline going the adult bees will look really good and maybe not brown out at all. All I am trying to say is you get what you pay for.

Im gonna make a thread too, stating that banana's are overrated and calling for an immediate price drop. I mean, 22k for a snake? I mean, I understand if it cleaned its own poop for 22k but if I still have to clean the poop what's the point?

Sorry you dont like bees. And they are underrated. Just like pastels. Pastels are the key to so much nice stuff it's amazing that they cost like 50 bucks. They should be the 500 dollar snake, and bees back up to like 1200.

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Originally Posted by zues

What you are seeing with the bees are over breeding of bad genetics. The market is now flooded with animals that were bred from the cheapest animals money could by. When prices came down people bought the cheapest pastel and spider they could find(usually ugly pastels) and made bees. Recently I have ever seen pastels being sold as "ugly pastels". There are some people, Nerd comes to mind, that have selectively bred bees for great color. These animals will cost you almost twice as much but as the old saying goes you get what you pay for.

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Your completely right and I agree 100% I didn't take that into consideration and now that I know that I will pay for what I want and not pinch penny's lol. Thanks for re-routing my thoughts.