Cordelia's neck - very upset!

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Originally Posted by JLC

The second "arrival" picture seems to show the best evidence. But if the seller had sent that exact same picture of her, would you have noticed the kink? I don't think I would have. It's easy to see how you would dismiss it as nothing, and put the animal away for a proper settling-in period.

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Cool... good to know I wasn't in full-blown denial! I figured she was laying in a tight coil for the whole trip, and just had a small dent that would go away - like when you fall asleep in a weird position, and wake up with lines on your face. :D

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I really do hope the seller is a good guy and is willing to work with you on this to reach a reasonable and fair solution.

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So do I... he was fairly slow with emails throughout the sale, which is why I'm being more patient than usual. Hopefully he makes things right, but think I'll stick with known breeders (known either personally or by reputation) from now on.

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

So do I... he was fairly slow with emails throughout the sale, which is why I'm being more patient than usual. Hopefully he makes things right, but think I'll stick with known breeders (known either personally or by reputation) from now on.

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She IS exceptionally pretty and I know I'd've been tempted to go with a small, less-known breeder for a chance to score that kind of quality. And "small, less-known" doesn't mean anything regarding their character, despite what some cynical souls try to convince us. I've got hope that they'll work with you. :yes:

I have to say, I do see the kink in the photos the breeder took, but only because I know it's there--I know exactly where to look. I would never have suspected there was a kink based on those photos alone, either.

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Originally Posted by JLC

She IS exceptionally pretty and I know I'd've been tempted to go with a small, less-known breeder for a chance to score that kind of quality. And "small, less-known" doesn't mean anything regarding their character, despite what some cynical souls try to convince us. I've got hope that they'll work with you. :yes:

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As a new "small breeder" myself, I did - and still do - want to give the lesser-known folks a chance. Maybe I will again in the future, just with a more keen eye and better knowledge next time. And apparently you see why I was tempted by her! Even with the kink, I'm not sure I want to send her back... she's just beautiful to look at, regardless of any abnormalities. Would be a shame not to pass along those genes, though. :(

P.S. If I do decide to keep her and he offers compensation, what would be a fair refund? How much should a kinked (thus non-breeding) lesser girl sell for?

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

P.S. If I do decide to keep her and he offers compensation, what would be a fair refund? How much should a kinked (thus non-breeding) lesser girl sell for?

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I'm not sure. The possibility of her being able to breed in the future hasn't been ruled out in the first place. If kink is caused by an old injury, there's nothing that should prevent her from passing on her genes in the future.

If the seller is willing to consider giving you the option of a partial refund and you keep her...or a full refund and you send her back....then I think only you can decide what is fair in your own heart. How much is she WORTH to you to keep with the distinct possibility of never breeding her?

It may be an academic question anyhow. The seller may offer $xx partial refund, and you can either take it or leave it. Obviously, anything would be better than nothing.

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Originally Posted by JLC

I'm not sure. The possibility of her being able to breed in the future hasn't been ruled out in the first place. If kink is caused by an old injury, there's nothing that should prevent her from passing on her genes in the future.

If the seller is willing to consider giving you the option of a partial refund and you keep her...or a full refund and you send her back....then I think only you can decide what is fair in your own heart. How much is she WORTH to you to keep with the distinct possibility of never breeding her?

It may be an academic question anyhow. The seller may offer $xx partial refund, and you can either take it or leave it. Obviously, anything would be better than nothing.

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I do have a dollar amount in mind, based on what I'd personally sell a kinked lesser for... but we'll see what he offers, if anything. As for the "to breed or not to breed" question, I do have a really good local herp vet - so if I'm still in this area (and still have her) when she's older, maybe I'll get an X-Ray to help determine the cause.

id keep it! i know its somewhat sick but it makes it special and i would be at ease to know that if i have it, she would get the extra care that is needed :(

As I see it, unless the breeder can show a picture of her neck held straight, the breeder photos, your arrival photos, and your kink photos is plenty of evidence that this is not something that happened in your care. All the photos you showed here has the neck in that s-shape which shows ZERO proof that she was not kinked prior to shipping.

My take on the matter: I'd ask for some money back plus the cost of x-ray so you can decide whether to breed or not. Or get a full refund and ship the snake back. At this point, if the breeder decides he would rather take the snake back, you should go ahead and do so even though you have gotten attached to her. It's fair to the breeder that has tried to make it right. As a breeder, I wouldn't want a customer holding a kinked snake that she can show off to other people with my name attached to it, ya know what I mean?

That sucks, :(

But how likely is it that any kinks are actually genetic?

I know certain morphs are known to be more likely to kink but lesser isn't one of them.

Could it be simply an incubation induced defect?

Or even an injury that happened very early on in her life?

I absolutely think you should have been told about this when you bought her though.

I would probably give the seller a whole week to respond and try and work something out before going to the BOI - your being open, honest and reasonable in this will only help. I would also recommend a thicker skin than normal and just answering the questions no matter the manner in which they are asked. ;)

If the seller does resond to your email then try and find out as much information about the possible causes as possible - were any others in this clutch or any other unrelated clutch also kinked or did he have a higher than usual number of dead in eggs for example (might point to incubation problems).

Also ask if he has any other photos showing the neck in different positions for the same animal regardless of the age at the time - it may point to it being an injury during an attempt at force or assist feeding.


dr del

I too would give them till Monday or Tuesday to respond just because of the long weekend.
Then what ever wait time after that is up to you.
Also this pic the breeder sent you may show it, I cannot clean it up enough to tell if its the tip of the tail or the kink (under enough zoom to tell it pixelates too bad)
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...prowl/Kink.jpg

Next question is, how attached are you already? Are you going to worry about what happens to her if he gets her back? Some people treat their animals as just dollar signs! (I had a partner of mine want to breed one of my APBTs that was in the middle of heartworm treatment just because she was in heat!!:mad:)

Third and final, Is it possible to get an x-ray done NOW just to see what is going on inside her? I dont know what it takes to x-ray a snake but it would help you to inform yourself and see if there might be signs of injury and not genetics.

I wish you luck and please keep us informed of the outcome.