Burm or Retic??

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Originally Posted by AkHerps

I was just wondering how you go about managing their growth?

How much do you feed, etc..? I can't find any info on it, other then not feeding enough.

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ARE YOU SERIOUS???? I am talking about feeding a healthy amount. Most people OVERFEED during the first couple years so that there Retic gets bigger faster, which sets them up for ultimately growing to a larger size than one that was fed a HEALTHY amount throughout these first two years. Managing there growth is simply feeding healthy, not too much. And as I thought I had made it obvious NOT TOO LITTLE

Many people feed there Retic whenever it will eat thinking that just because it will eat, it is hungry. Retics have a great feeding response which often turns out bad for them because people feed them too frequently just because they will eat.

I'm asking a question as to how much YOU would feed a retic, as in, what has your research shown you? In your opinion what is a healthy amount? Most care sheets and breeder web sites say once a week for really young snakes, should it be different from that?

With apropriate sized food, once a week up until 1-2 years then cut back to 1 every 1 1/2 weeks then up to1 every 2 weeks and so on... As they grow older their metabolism slows down so they dont need to eat as often, just larger prey. Of cource each retic will differ in the size prey it will eat and therefore differ slightly in the frequency of feeding.

And i know that most breeder sites say once a week when young, the same thing I say. But reality is your average joe thinks he knows what his snake wants and needs and therefor does not do what is right for the snake. Joe wants a big snake so he feeds to get a big snake. And this is where most, not all, of your bigger retics come from, those that were overfed

Yeah I think our older ball python would keep eating every day until he couldn't eat anymore, he's such a piggy, but he's on a strict 7-10 day diet with a small rat. Although the people who had him before us had him on one small mouse every 10 days! He's a pretty large snake, almost 40 inches, a little mouse is like a dog treat xP

I don't think overfeeding is bad, but it just makes the snake reach it's full potential too fast? Like feeding a large breed puppy food that is way too high in protein makes the puppy grow super fast(although that can kill XL breeds of dogs)

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Originally Posted by AkHerps

I don't think overfeeding is bad, but it just makes the snake reach it's full potential too fast? Like feeding a large breed puppy food that is way too high in protein makes the puppy grow super fast(although that can kill XL breeds of dogs)

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Here is another reference to humans....... If a person "overfeeds" and "reaches its full potential too fast" this is called obesity. This is the same thing in snakes.. When a snake is overfed, it gains the size through fat, not muscle. This results in an unhealthy snake and a shorter lifespan, just like in humans. If a snake is fed the correct amount, it builds more muscle and does not have the fat issues, so it is therefor an overall healthier snake.

And the whole protien thing is a totally seperate issue. Too much protien in a diet without other supplements to balance the protien out can lead to a totally different range of health issues... The same reason that they say you cant live off of rabbits if you are stranded in the wild because of their high muscle content (which means very high protien in their meat) and very low fat content.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AkHerps

I don't think overfeeding is bad, but it just makes the snake reach it's full potential too fast? Like feeding a large breed puppy food that is way too high in protein makes the puppy grow super fast(although that can kill XL breeds of dogs)

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This is an interesting topic (minus all the flaming, of course). I will be getting my first burm next week at Daytona, so I've been re-reading a lot of the materials online about large pythons and their growth. I, too, have read a few articles that suggest that growth can be safely controlled by the size prey you offer.

NERD's article, which is on retics, so I've not read it before, implies that yes, you can keep them from growing so fast by feeding smaller meals, but that if you go too small, they are hungrier and therefore more likely to attack you when being handled, thus putting you and your snake into a dangerous situation.

So it appears the question is... what size prey is TOO small for safety, but not so large as to cause excessively fast growth, i.e. power-feeding caliber growth??

I know in the cornsnake community there is some annecdotal evidence that snakes who were power fed as babies to achieve breeding size ASAP have shortened lifespans. I myself have always been a more conservative feeder with my snakes because of this.

Has anyone found the same to be true with burms and retics that were power fed as babies??

This is one of the articles I found and read re: Burmese python feeding and growth. It is from Reptiles Magazine, circa 1998.

http://www.bobclark.com/aAN_98.asp

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The growth rate of Burmese pythons can be influenced by several factors, with the snakes being capable of an almost unbelievable rate of growth under ideal conditions. Burmese pythons that are kept at temperatures in the mid- to high-80s, and that are fed all they will eat twice a week (on average), can reach a length of nearly 10 feet in one years' time. In contrast, I know of a Burmese that was fed only one mouse every 10 days, and in seven years it reached a length of only slightly more than 4'/, feet. I obtained this snake, and after a year of heavy feeding it reached a length of 11 feet.

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So obviously 10' in one year seems akin to power feeding, while 4.5 feet in 7 years is not acceptable. It does not appear to stunt the growth, however, if Clark was able to get it to 11 foot with more frequent and larger feedings.

Good topic.

I too find it a very interesting topic (when it is discussed without accusations and out of place comments lol). I personally believe in "size management." And by this term I only mean feeding a healthy amount to make the snake, doesnt matter if it is a burm, retic, or a ball python, and not overfeeding.

As I have said in my other posts, your average snake keeper will powerfeed their snake. This is more common with larger species but I also know it happens ALOT with ball pythons and some other species as well. Because when most people buy a retic or burm specifically, they are buying it for the size it will get. And most of us on here are Americans and we dont like waiting for things lol. And therefore we WANT IT NOW!! So people feed them too much and too big of prey items to reach that bigger size that they want faster. This, I believe, will result in a bigger snake but also shortened life span. But people get bored fast anyway so who cares if it only lives 10 years as long as you can show it off to your friends and tell people you have a 20+ foot snake in your house (this is NOT my view point, but its the truth).

Now the whole story about the guy only feeding a mouse every 10 days and the 4' 7yr old burm.... That just cant be healthy, but hey at least it lived. And im surprised that it grew to 11' that fast when it is that old. I mean that kind of growth normally only happens in the first few years. But I guess powerfeeding works at any age. But I would say that powerfeeding after being fed that little for so long would make the situation worse... Maybe if he slowly built the amount of food up over a year but going strait to powerfeeding had to pack on some major fat really fast which is never good no matter what kind of animal you are talking about.

But hey snakes are pretty hardy animals aparently because I have personally come across some pretty bad situations and the snakes still seem, for the most part, healthy. I work with them everyday and hear people talk about how some of these animals are being kept.... All I can do is tell them the right way to do things, I cant make them. Every week I have to sell the same guy 4 medium rats for his not even full grown ball python. He feeds him all of them at a time because he said he likes the "more full body look". I always tell him it isnt healthy but I forgot that all owners know what their snake likes and doesnt like and they know whats best for the snake, the people that work with them for a living dont know what they are talking about. I've never had any of my snakes talk to me, I guess Im just not smart enough to understand my snake.... God I hate idiots! And yes if anyone is ready this post and is offended because you "know what your snake likes and doesnt like." Please sell your animal or give it to someone else. Send me a message and i'll come pick up your snake. I honestly care more about the animals than I care about hurting someone's feelings or just selling more products at work. Thats why I am in the field im in.

Sorry I have a lot to say about topics like these lol.

I would get a burm, but retics are known to be more smart (which is why I would rather have a burm.)