y are these Black eyed Leucistics not all white?

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Originally Posted by nikevijo

I always do that, lol MOJAVE
Will you still get the purple on the head with LxL, BxB???

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nope

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Originally Posted by FIREball

Nothing dirty about an Ivory, they are one of the few morphs that get better with age...almost pure white

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I agree 100% they are amazing as adults.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I know for a fact by the breeder that did the breeding that on more than one occasion a Phantom X Phantom and produced BEL's and the "Super Phantom" in the same clutch.

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first I have to hear of this, tho I have seen ralphs multiple phantom x phantom breedings that made just super phantoms, no BEL

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

first I have to hear of this, tho I have seen ralphs multiple phantom x phantom breedings that made just super phantoms, no BEL

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No doubt..Not saying it happens every time..also didn't say it was Ralph..

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

No doubt..Not saying it happens every time..also didn't say it was Ralph..

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well it just goes against simple genetics, and you are the first person I've ever herd say that. I'm just saying ralph done it a few times and still no BEL.... and I mean statistically you should get 25% super 50% phantom 25% normal... unless phantom is a more complex gene than is public or your breeding friend has some sort of hidden gene.

so have your friend release some data

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

well it just goes against simple genetics, and you are the first person I've ever herd say that. I'm just saying ralph done it a few times and still no BEL.... and I mean statistically you should get 25% super 50% phantom 25% normal... unless phantom is a more complex gene than is public or your breeding friend has some sort of hidden gene.

so have your friend release some data

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how does it go against simple genetics

Here I'll do it this way

We all know what it takes to make a BEL right..

Ever see a Mystic potion up close? they have this purple/gray tint to them..Like this
http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/s...rum/975587.jpg

Sort of a less washed out version of a super Mojave like this
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...rph2208bel.jpg

Look at the heads..

http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/a...nakes005-1.jpg
Look right behind the neck and in the body you'll see a faint pattern that looks like a faded super phantom..

Here's a less more washed out Mystic potion..
[IMG]http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...radoxMP2-1.jpg[/IMG]

Now if Mojave to mojave makes a BEL and Mojave to Lesser makes a BEL and Phantom to Lesser makes a BEL and Lesser to lesser makes a BEL..

Then I think what we are seeing is similar to the super stripe where the combo of the two makes a less drastic version of the super.

It all just different versions of the same gene..

P.S. I've also seen pics of super lessers that have faint pattern and a yellow stripe down there back. :D hormones can do funny things to skink in reptiles. its responsible for the glow in females and even the ability for many to change color all together..

Just food for thought.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

how does it go against simple genetics

Here I'll do it this way

We all know what it takes to make a BEL right..

Ever see a Mystic potion up close? they have this purple/gray tint to them..Like this
http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/s...rum/975587.jpg

Sort of a less washed out version of a super Mojave like this
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...rph2208bel.jpg

Look at the heads..

http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/a...nakes005-1.jpg
Look right behind the neck and in the body you'll see a faint pattern that looks like a faded super phantom..

Here's a less more washed out Mystic potion..
[IMG]http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...radoxMP2-1.jpg[/IMG]

Now if Mojave to mojave makes a BEL and Mojave to Lesser makes a BEL and Phantom to Lesser makes a BEL and Lesser to lesser makes a BEL..

Then I think what we are seeing is similar to the super stripe where the combo of the two makes a less drastic version of the super.

It all just different versions of the same gene..

P.S. I've also seen pics of super lessers that have faint pattern and a yellow stripe down there back. :D hormones can do funny things to skink in reptiles. its responsible for the glow in females and even the ability for many to change color all together..

Just food for thought.

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Wow!!! Thank you I never saw that! It make so mutch cense (after drooling on my keybord for a half hr.) lol. Awsome catch on that, super props!

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

how does it go against simple genetics

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Because there is no morph that the super form makes 2 different snakes. a mojave x mojave will always make super mojaves.... you can't get a mystic potion.

unless im not understanding what your saying... You made it out to sound like out of a phantom x phantom he made BELs.... well yea that goes against simple genetics because phantom/phantom makes super phantom.

doesn't matter that its part of the BEL complex, a mojave/mystic will never make a super mojave, it will always make mystic potion. just as much as a phantom/lesser will always make BEL, never a super phantom. just as yellowbelly/spector will always make superstripe, never an ivory.

understand what im saying now?

What he's getting at is that a super phantom is really just a darker version of the usual BEL. Or if you want to switch it around, a BEL is just a lighter version of what happens with the super phantom. It all comes down to the amount of melanin and coloration. Just like a pastel can produce bright yellow pastels and dirty brown pastels.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Because there is no morph that the super form makes 2 different snakes. a mojave x mojave will always make super mojaves.... you can't get a mystic potion.

unless im not understanding what your saying... You made it out to sound like out of a phantom x phantom he made BELs.... well yea that goes against simple genetics because phantom/phantom makes super phantom.

doesn't matter that its part of the BEL complex, a mojave/mystic will never make a super mojave, it will always make mystic potion. just as much as a phantom/lesser will always make BEL, never a super phantom. just as yellowbelly/spector will always make superstripe, never an ivory.

understand what im saying now?

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There is still much we don't understand..Unless I'm mistaken and it happens more often than I'll admit there are still things we are finding out about animals that have been around for years...

For instance if Phantom X Phantom = super phantom and Mojo X Phantom = "Mystic Potion" then by the same trait Lesser X Phantom should be a "Mystic potion"..but low and behold it a BEL, other things like why did some of the Lesser Pied's turn out to be BEL but the Mojo Pieds aren't. Why do spider pieds have a totally white body with a colored head? Why are Lesser sibs produced from a Lesser to normal breeding not produce Platty Daddys only Platty sibs bred to Lessers produce Plattys.. Then you get in to the Leopards those things just baffle me. All I'm saying is that the Phantom it seems strange that the Phantom is the only piece of the BEL complex that seems to be missing a corner..

Like was said before I think we'll find that a Mystic potion is a homozygous animal and not a combo of two different genes..

All I'm saying is that I have been to that a breeder bred Phantom to phantom and produce super phantoms and BEL's in the same clutch..Could be a fluke could be more going on in that animal than the general public knows. Could have been a double sired clutch.