Views on keeping more than one bp in an enclosure

I agree with you.

I don't house my snakes together so I don't know what they need to live healthily together. You have kept snakes together and you do know.

I know the "risks" associated with keeping ball pythons together so that is the information I provided. I understand many of these "risks" are just scare tactics.

So I should have said something like. "Yes you can keep ball pythons together but I have never done it so I don't have any information that can help you. I think it is healthier to house my snakes separately"

It takes a lot of money and time to set up a big enclosure like that and to keep it properly heated. It is a big project, much bigger than putting a snake in a tub. Some people, like Robin said, are really just looking for a way to cut costs, and putting multiple snakes in an enclosure would increase costs, in my opinion.

I am not denying anyone information, I just simply don't know how to properly house snakes together since I have never done it.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Anyone with the brains of a gnat, which I am assuming we all have at the minimum, would see that and say to themselves, "Hey, I have 2 males in there. I better separate them."

If that was your point, well done.

If you were trying to make some other point, one of us would be sorely embarrassed by the average gnat.

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I'm sorry, but i have embarrassed the gnat. Nobody sees this as a problem with housing more than one snake together? Maybe they didn't grow up together, and that's why they are fighting.

How do you know they are two males?

I guess we should just thing this is an isolated incident, and let it be right?

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Originally Posted by wilomn

And fish swim and birds fly.

Why do people always throw up comparisons with mammals when talking about reptile reproduction?

There is NO denying that early pregnancy in mammals can be detrimental to the female. But, and here's a key point you seem to have missed, we are NOT discussing mammals.

Reptiles do things a tad differently, especially the egg layers.

IF a female can lay viable 2 viable eggs and have no ill effects from it, is that not a successful breeding? It may not bring the owner as much profit as a 6 or 12 egg clutch, but if there is no difference in the females after laying, why is it better to have large clutches?

I'm not advocating breeding small or young females. I am saying that IF the female produces viable ova, is fertilized and then lays good eggs, how is this wrong? No one gave her hormone treatments. No one forced her to produce ova. She did it because she was ready to.

Otherwise, she would not have produced ova.

Opinions are fine, but lets try to be factual and species specific, not emotional and anthropomorphic.

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Well I am assuming your first question was rhetorical but I will answer it. People compare to reptiles to mammals because as humans we have a vastly greater experience dealing with mammals when compared to reptiles.

The fact that we are discussing reptiles was not lost on me. In fact I opened my post with a link to an article on egg binding. You neglected to make any comments referencing the topic. What are your thoughts on egg binding?

You then go on to lay out a scenario with lots of IF's. IF all of your presumptions are true I would agree with you. Are you so confident that there is no risk associated with young and/or underweight breeding, and no long lasting effects, that you would recommend others breed young and/or under weight females?

If you wouldn't recommend you breed these animals then how can you in good conscience recommend that someone house a male and female together.

Too often people take a recommendation of one snake per enclosure as a call to arms.

Lets keep our eye on the ball. The OP did not ask for advice on how to house two BP's together. The question was what are our opinions. My opinion is that if you have to ask you should not do it. I am not a big fan of scare tactics or mis leading information but you can't responsibly just say that eggbinding, spread of disease, stress, and cannibalism are nothing to worry about.

If a 16 year old straight male comes up to me and says, "Hey what are your thoughts on unprotected sex?" Would I be a responsible 30 year old man if I said "Good times, the chances of you knocking up someone on your first try are pretty slim. The chances of you catching a disease at your age are pretty slim also if you don't pick a dirty girl" then I can go on to tell them about my personal experience "I have had lots of unprotected sex and never caught a disease and a good friend of mine has been trying to get pregnant for 6 months with no luck." If a kid asked me specific questions then of course I would give specific answers, but when the question is general the person is generally looking for advice. So again my advice is not to keep your snakes together.

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

I'm sorry, but i have embarrassed the gnat. Nobody sees this as a problem with housing more than one snake together? Maybe they didn't grow up together, and that's why they are fighting.

How do you know they are two males?

I guess we should just thing this is an isolated incident, and let it be right?

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I'll go out on the limb here.

As a witness to many hundreds if not thousands of combat dances between male snakes of many species I feel qualified to state that the snakes in the video are males combatting for a female that may not even be there. It's classic.

Based on that I made the statements I did.

Gnats must be getting smarter.

Oh. I thought it said somewhere, and I missed it. :oops:

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Let's forget about ball pythons for a sec and talk about snakes in general.....

Until the internet got hot, I never heard of any problems with (or had any problems with) housing large drys together. I have always kept 1.2 trios, 1.1 pairz and two females together - always of similar size (I'll admit I've never kept two males together).

I'm always sure to provide them with large cages, multiple hides and large thermoregulation zones and there are certain protocols to follow when feeding them.

I'm talking years with these animals. I always make sure they are fed and have plenty of space and I have never had one single problem.

Now I go onto websites and hear about people warning not to do this with cribos and indigos because they'll cannibalize each other, they'll egg bind and stress each other out.

I converse on a fairly regular basis with some old school dry breeders who have followed similar practices and never had an issue - so where is all of this contrary information coming from?

Now let's go back to balls. Yes, for the average person keeping his balls in a blanket box rack, co-habitating makes no sense. While I am not big into regius, I know plenty of people who successfully cohabitate their balls in adequately sizes enclosures with no issues.

Let's try this: instead of everyone saying that it can't work, how about offering advice to the OP in case he wants to make it work?

1. You need an adequately sized cage.

2. Keeping 2 males together is not the best idea. 1.1 pairs or 0.2 pairs work best.

3. Multiple hides are needed, along with thermoregulation zones big enough to accomodate the number of snakes you are keeping together.

4. Only house healthy snakes together that have been through quarantine and are disease free.

5. Make sure to follow safety protocols when feeding.

There are more but you get the idea.

It's better to say it can work under the right conditions than to say it's a bad idea, or that it can't be done, or even shouldn't be done.


Just because you don't know enough to house multiple snake together doesn't mean that someone who wants to try it should be denied the information required to attempt it - right?

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This post is a great example of what I was saying about an irresponsible answer to a question that was not asked. The OP asked for our opinions on keeping BP's together not the best way to do it. Even if the OP had asked how to do it. You are extremely vague.

So I am your average Joe and I have read 5 or 6 posts. I have my 20 gallon long, cause thats all you need for an adult so I got point 1 down. I have 1 male and 2 females all around 700 grams so I got point 2 down. Sure I got a temp gradient and few hides so I can check 3 off. The snakes look fine and I kept them apart for a week or so all set for 4. I always where gloves when I feed so all set with point 5. Yeah I get the idea alright.

On top of all that your arguments are not logical. Until the internet got hot I didn't know about a lot of things. For instance I have been "undercooking" pork for years with no problems. Never heard of anyone having problems eating under cooked pork. I have been drinking the water from local streams and never had a problem. Not a single bit of that is relevant if I am asked how to cook pork or what my thoughts are on drinking unfiltered stream water. Now I go online and I find lots of cases of people who live in other countries with less regulation on their food getting very ill or dieing from eating undercooked pork. Drinking the local water can also kill you depending on where "local" is. So my thoughts are that pork should be well done and you should not drink unfiltered water.

Back to snakes. Neither of our personal experiences are good foundations for advice. I have too little and you have too much. This is why things get regurgitated as you put it. The regurgitated advice is the safest advice.

My canned reply on this is below here.

I don't really see any need to house BPs together, except very temporarily during breeding season. Can a keeper with experience do what he pleases with his animals? sure. But i wouldn't reccomend a newer keeper do it just because they can. I think that Rabernet actually said it best anyway.

MY opinion on the matter is, if i can't provide an animal with safe, secure housing that meets the requirements for the species, then i can't own that animal until i do. and with MY guidelines on the matter, every BP -i- own gets its own house.

does that cover the topic?

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To quote another post on the exact same topic (PS: search feature is your friend). Take this post with a grain of salt, but please understand why it is better for your animals to each have a home, than to have to share one. (This post was also made for someone who was already housing animals together).

NO, you should not.

it is NOT good for the animals to be housed together. There are a multitude of reasons for this, including but not limited to the following;

1. You didnt quarantine your new addition and if its carrying something, chances are your older animal has it too anything from parasites, worms, sickness and disease, (even if there arent any symptoms yet)

2. Did you get these animals sexed from a reliable source? Or are you trusting the pet store.. This means you could have two opposite genders and you have the chance that they could now breed early causing the female (if one is a female) problems and possibly killing her

3. Cannibalism is known to occur in a few documented cases involving BPs

4. If one of your animals is sick, you probably wont know which one because you cant tell their feces/urates/regurges apart

5. If one gets sick, they both get sick and now you have to spend 2x the amount of money in vet care.

6. Actions we see as "cuddling" are actually one snake dominating the other. They both may be eating fine now but how long is that going to last? The smaller one is especially at risk for stress which could lower immune levels.

housing two animals in one enclosure when they arent social isnt something novice keepers should do. Each animal should have their own space to thrive. If cost is the problem then maybe you need to take one back or rehome him until you can provide a sutible environment for any animal that comes into your home.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

Well I am assuming your first question was rhetorical but I will answer it. People compare to reptiles to mammals because as humans we have a vastly greater experience dealing with mammals when compared to reptiles.

The fact that we are discussing reptiles was not lost on me. In fact I opened my post with a link to an article on egg binding. You neglected to make any comments referencing the topic. What are your thoughts on egg binding?

You then go on to lay out a scenario with lots of IF's. IF all of your presumptions are true I would agree with you. Are you so confident that there is no risk associated with young and/or underweight breeding, and no long lasting effects, that you would recommend others breed young and/or under weight females?

If you wouldn't recommend you breed these animals then how can you in good conscience recommend that someone house a male and female together.

Too often people take a recommendation of one snake per enclosure as a call to arms.

Lets keep our eye on the ball. The OP did not ask for advice on how to house two BP's together. The question was what are our opinions. My opinion is that if you have to ask you should not do it. I am not a big fan of scare tactics or mis leading information but you can't responsibly just say that eggbinding, spread of disease, stress, and cannibalism are nothing to worry about.

If a 16 year old straight male comes up to me and says, "Hey what are your thoughts on unprotected sex?" Would I be a responsible 30 year old man if I said "Good times, the chances of you knocking up someone on your first try are pretty slim. The chances of you catching a disease at your age are pretty slim also if you don't pick a dirty girl" then I can go on to tell them about my personal experience "I have had lots of unprotected sex and never caught a disease and a good friend of mine has been trying to get pregnant for 6 months with no luck." If a kid asked me specific questions then of course I would give specific answers, but when the question is general the person is generally looking for advice. So again my advice is not to keep your snakes together.

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Why do you keep making comparisons that have nothing to do with keeping more than one snake in an enclosure?

You've covered underage pregnancy, undercooked pork, horse sex, dog sex, drinking from streams and unprotected sex.................

The OP asked for opinions. He got a bunch of opinions - many backed up with crap and BS. Those opinions have been reacted to. Deal with it.

The point is, people cohabitate snakes (even ball pythons) all the time. Some people do it right and some people do it wrong. It's not impossible to do it and it should not be considered a husbandry no-no if done correctly.

Regurgitated advice is just that - puke. Opinions based on experience or fact hold value.

I'll agree with one thing you said - your experience in this matter is not a foundation for good advice.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Let's forget about ball pythons for a sec and talk about snakes in general.....

Until the internet got hot, I never heard of any problems with (or had any problems with) housing large drys together. I have always kept 1.2 trios, 1.1 pairz and two females together - always of similar size (I'll admit I've never kept two males together).

I'm always sure to provide them with large cages, multiple hides and large thermoregulation zones and there are certain protocols to follow when feeding them.

I'm talking years with these animals. I always make sure they are fed and have plenty of space and I have never had one single problem.

Now I go onto websites and hear about people warning not to do this with cribos and indigos because they'll cannibalize each other, they'll egg bind and stress each other out.

I converse on a fairly regular basis with some old school dry breeders who have followed similar practices and never had an issue - so where is all of this contrary information coming from?

Now let's go back to balls. Yes, for the average person keeping his balls in a blanket box rack, co-habitating makes no sense. While I am not big into regius, I know plenty of people who successfully cohabitate their balls in adequately sizes enclosures with no issues.

Let's try this: instead of everyone saying that it can't work, how about offering advice to the OP in case he wants to make it work?

1. You need an adequately sized cage.

2. Keeping 2 males together is not the best idea. 1.1 pairs or 0.2 pairs work best.

3. Multiple hides are needed, along with thermoregulation zones big enough to accomodate the number of snakes you are keeping together.

4. Only house healthy snakes together that have been through quarantine and are disease free.

5. Make sure to follow safety protocols when feeding.

There are more but you get the idea.

It's better to say it can work under the right conditions than to say it's a bad idea, or that it can't be done, or even shouldn't be done.


Just because you don't know enough to house multiple snake together doesn't mean that someone who wants to try it should be denied the information required to attempt it - right?

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I think this is the best post on this thread I've read so far.

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Just because you don't know enough to house multiple snake together doesn't mean that someone who wants to try it should be denied the information required to attempt it - right?

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I completely agree on this. If the OP wants to try out having more than one snake in the enclosure, the OP should go ahead and do it. But, if the OP needs some help, I think the people who KNOW what they're talking about should help the OP out. Skiploder made a GREAT point, and says that he had no problem at all with housing 1.1 or 1.2 snakes in one enclosure. That being said, not ALL snakes will do horribly if housed in an enclosure with another snake or two. The snakes housed together just need a larger space to house all of them together and have enough space so no fights happen for territory/dominance/mates.

If the OP wants to house the snakes together, I would just try out having two females together, first. I haven't heard anything bad happening between females (fights), so maybe starting out with two females would be best. I'm not experienced with housing more than one snakes in an enclosure, but maybe sometime in the future I'd want to try it out and see how it goes.

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Originally Posted by cinderbird

6. Actions we see as "cuddling" are actually one snake dominating the other. They both may be eating fine now but how long is that going to last? The smaller one is especially at risk for stress which could lower immune levels.

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Are you sure about this?

Snakes seen as cuddling are likely to be sharing a prime thermoregulation or hide spot.

I have yet to see a study or witness actual behavior in which this is a case of one snake "dominating" the other.

Seriously - I've seen this behavior off and on for years. My bt cribo pair does it and they've been together for years. They eat, shed, crap, and make whoopee just fine. I'm just wondering where someone saw two snakes coiling together and ASSumed that it was some sort of dominance display.

Again - if you can drudge up a study or something based in fact that proves that this is a dominance display, I'll cheerfully agree with you.