Why We Are Idiots For Using Kingsnake.com To Price Our Animals

my question is why does quality and price always seem like people think they are one in the same. just cuz something cost more doesnt make it of a higher quality. breeder A can produce a top shelf honeybee in his shed and sell if for $15 and breeder B breed the worst example of one and list it for 2k. i know for me when i shop i look for the best at the cheapest price (yes i said cheap). people do this everyday when it comes to other things and noone says anything bad about it.

a few years ago lcd and plasma tvs were 2 and 3 times the price they are today but i dont see anyone of us complaining about that (maybe someone who paid the higher price).

we all sit back and call this a hoby but complain about the prices like a business. if this is just a hoby treat it like one, when it comes to most hobies you lose money in every aspect of it, i have yet seen any sort of return on the thousands ive spent on my r/c's (i only buy top quality there too) and i look at snakes in the same way if i can happen to get a couple dollars to pay for some food from breeding them cool if not who cares i love the hoby and thats all it is

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Originally Posted by JayCee

I always get a kick out of the "quality" argument.

As far as I know, the "big guys" don't destroy/sterilize the low quality animals they produce. They mark the price down some and then sell them with the full knowledge these animals are likely to be used by someone for breeding.


I have produced some beautiful ball pythons "in my basement", by the way. My collection size is based on space available (for both the snakes and feeders). I keep my collection the same size, but continue to increase the quality. I do this by selling as many snakes as I produce every season. For every hatchling I "hold back" or new snake purchased, one has to go.

If you feel my asking price is too low, you are welcome to buy them all from me and hold onto them until prices go back up to where you would want them to be. Good luck with that plan :)

It's supply vs. demand.

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I don't really get what you're saying here. Of course the "big breeders" don't kill their ugly hatchlings -- that would be asinine. They also don't market them as any less suitable for breeding, but you can't get around the fact that ugly animals generally (though admittedly, not always) produce ugly offspring, and vise-versa.

All people are saying is that a pretty animal of a given morph is always going to command a somewhat higher price than an ugly animal of the same morph -- regardless of who produced it ("basement breeder" or "big guy"). Sure, there are big names who sell some ugly examples of given morphs at inflated prices, and they'll get that price, thanks to their name. But I still think that "Basement breeder A" with a gorgeous, bright yellow pastel will be able to sell it for a higher price than "Basement breeder B" with a dirt-brown pastel that looks little different from a normal.

I agree with you though -- ultimately, for the most part it's all supply and demand. Otherwise, the piebald (which has been around a LOT longer than the pinstripe) would've plummeted in price just as fast as all of these co-doms.

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Originally Posted by JDL

we all sit back and call this a hobby but complain about the prices like a business. if this is just a hoby treat it like one,

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You found the chink in the armor of private breeders.

IF it's a hobby, price is not relevant.

IF it's a business, price is all that IS important.

It can't be both.

IF you're complaining about price, you're a business.

It's that simple to this simple mind.

All the rest is justification for NOT wanting to be known as a business when, in fact, that is exactly what you are.

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

I don't really get what you're saying here. Of course the "big breeders" don't kill their ugly hatchlings -- that would be asinine.

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The point I was making is that some breeders of other species DO that with their lower quality animals. They put them down in some cases. They sterilize and sell as pets in others. That is how the professional breeders maintain the quality.

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Originally Posted by JDL

my question is why does quality and price always seem like people think they are one in the same. just cuz something cost more doesnt make it of a higher quality. breeder A can produce a top shelf honeybee in his shed and sell if for $15 and breeder B breed the worst example of one and list it for 2k. i know for me when i shop i look for the best at the cheapest price (yes i said cheap). people do this everyday when it comes to other things and noone says anything bad about it.

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I'd imagine we all do, to a degree (price-checking, that is). Still, though, I'd rather pay a bit more for a really stunning animal than get the cheapest possible price on something ugly. Maybe I wouldn't pay 10x the price, but I know I'd certainly pay more.

I mean, hell, these are ALL just Python regis. I can pick up a Python regis for $10, as can anybody on this forum. I don't want just ANY Python regis, though -- I want ones that look crazy, with bright colors and funky patterns and all the like. If I pay $75 for a pastel that looks about the same as a $10 normal, isn't that more of a ripoff than paying $150 for a pastel that even non-herpers will see and say, "Wow"?

That doesn't mean that just because someone -- ANYONE, even a "big name" -- prices a pastel at $150, that makes it nice, or because someone else's pastels are $75, they're automatically ugly. But if one is a knockout, and the other looks like dirt ... Well ...

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we all sit back and call this a hoby but complain about the prices like a business. if this is just a hoby treat it like one, when it comes to most hobies you lose money in every aspect of it, i have yet seen any sort of return on the thousands ive spent on my r/c's (i only buy top quality there too) and i look at snakes in the same way if i can happen to get a couple dollars to pay for some food from breeding them cool if not who cares i love the hoby and thats all it is

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I feel the same way about this, though I know a lot of people don't. You're dang right, though -- what other "hobby" gives even the remotest chance of even breaking even? Heck, I'll be psyched if I can even do this for $100/year, all earnings and expenses tallied up. If I could actually make something at it? Get outta town. :P

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my question is why does quality and price always seem like people think they are one in the same. just cuz something cost more doesnt make it of a higher quality. breeder A can produce a top shelf honeybee in his shed and sell if for $15 and breeder B breed the worst example of one and list it for 2k. i know for me when i shop i look for the best at the cheapest price (yes i said cheap). people do this everyday when it comes to other things and noone says anything bad about it.

a few years ago lcd and plasma tvs were 2 and 3 times the price they are today but i dont see anyone of us complaining about that (maybe someone who paid the higher price).

we all sit back and call this a hoby but complain about the prices like a business. if this is just a hoby treat it like one, when it comes to most hobies you lose money in every aspect of it, i have yet seen any sort of return on the thousands ive spent on my r/c's (i only buy top quality there too) and i look at snakes in the same way if i can happen to get a couple dollars to pay for some food from breeding them cool if not who cares i love the hoby and thats all it is

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Originally Posted by JDL

my question is why does quality and price always seem like people think they are one in the same. just cuz something cost more doesnt make it of a higher quality. breeder A can produce a top shelf honeybee in his shed and sell if for $15 and breeder B breed the worst example of one and list it for 2k. i know for me when i shop i look for the best at the cheapest price (yes i said cheap). people do this everyday when it comes to other things and noone says anything bad about it.

a few years ago lcd and plasma tvs were 2 and 3 times the price they are today but i dont see anyone of us complaining about that (maybe someone who paid the higher price).

we all sit back and call this a hoby but complain about the prices like a business. if this is just a hoby treat it like one, when it comes to most hobies you lose money in every aspect of it, i have yet seen any sort of return on the thousands ive spent on my r/c's (i only buy top quality there too) and i look at snakes in the same way if i can happen to get a couple dollars to pay for some food from breeding them cool if not who cares i love the hoby and thats all it is

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First, check my signature link about cheap vs. quality for a more in depth explanation. I will ask what I feel my animals are worth to ME. If they don't sell because I believe my animals are better than average, then it's no skin off my teeth to hang onto them, because I don't produce more than I can comfortably keep.

I don't shop the price, I shop the animal and the looks of the animal and THEN I ask about price. I EXPECT a primo looking animal to be priced higher than your average animal.

My average babies will be offered at what the market is asking for average animals, but my primo animals will be priced accordingly.

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Originally Posted by JayCee

The point I was making is that some breeders of other species DO that with their lower quality animals. They put them down in some cases. They sterilize and sell as pets in others. That is how the professional breeders maintain the quality.

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Selling, marketing for the pet market is different from culling, though. I market most of my chinchillas as pets, and 90% of the chinchillas I sell are sold to pet homes. Not a lot of people breed chinchillas around here, and I've got a waiting list as long as my arm -- and as far as I can tell, every name on that list just wants a pet.

I don't *only* sell to pet homes, though, and if someone wants to breed the chins they got from me (even if they aren't the quality I want in my breeding program), I'm not going to stop them. I just don't push the breeding thing.

I've said it before, and people don't seem to like to hear it, but -- this is the only animal breeding hobby/industry I know where the vast majority of animals are sold as breeding stock. That means that, with every animal you sell, you're making yourself more competition.

Is that bad? Good? I dunno, but that's the way I see this market. It's a weird one, that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by bad-one

Quality will always command a better price.

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Not for the majority of people buying nowadays. Lowest price is all they care about. They will want you to match the price of a "D" grade animal even though there is no comparison when it comes to quality.

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Originally Posted by SPJ

Not for the majority of people buying nowadays. Lowest price is all they care about. They will want you to match the price of a "D" grade animal even though there is no comparison when it comes to quality.

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That's when you ask - then why don't you buy from XYZ? If you like the animal that I'm offering better, because it's a NICER animal, then why would you be surprised it's priced accordingly?

If you like XYZ's prices more than the quality of the animal, then go buy from XYZ.