Mistreated Dog

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Originally Posted by MissterDog

Btw any feedback from your supervisor on what you are allowed or not allowed to say?

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No, I'm going to talk to him today. But I kind of have a feeling that these people won't care or listen? Still worth a shot in my opinion though. Everyone please realize that I wouldn't have made this thread unless I was pretty sure about the neglect. They really don't seem like they know how to care for a dog.

The combination of the dirt, the mice, and everything sounds like nutty homeopathy-style theories for dogs to me. I'm honestly a fan of some of the hippie nonsense that's better supported (e.g. raw feeding, not feeding cats a bunch of grains) and don't see any issue with feeding frozen mice to a dog. It's healthier for them than a whole lot of stuff that dogs commonly get fed. But then there's the people with really weird, clearly wrong ideas like vegan cats or at a less nutty degree but similarly harmful, any raw feeding is better for dogs/cats so let's throw some meat in a bowl and call it good until the cat goes blind from lack of taurine.

Closest I could find - but this holistic dog website advocated "soil based organisms" for dogs. That could easily be morphed into "feed them some dirt."
https://thewholedog.com/soil-based-o...sbos-for-pets/

Sooo if this is what's actually happening...I have a feeling you're not going to be able to convince them of anything at all. People who are just doing things for convenience don't really go to the effort of getting mice and bags of dirt so I feel like that's not it.

You can see what you can convince them of, but if not, you might have to just keep an eye on it and see if it gets bad enough to report as abuse.

To be totally honest, the owners with their mice (arguable, but still hinting at weirdness so it adds up) and sprinkling dirt on the dog's food, keeping the dog too thin, and taking water away from 4pm to 6am sounds creepy and wrong as heck. I'd bring it up with the owners too, but they sound like they lack reasoning or logic as normal people to begin with.

Some people are just crazy and wrong and there's not much for a doggy daycare person to do about it, if the owners choose not to listen. Many people who shouldn't own animals, have animals. But if the animal isn't in extremely poor condition to qualify as abuse, other people can't do much about it except feel sorry for the animal for having neglectful owners. I'm sorry you have to witness this. :\

Yeah, seconding kcl here, it doesn't sound like a convenience issue, it sounds like one of the more extreme wildly out there holistic homeopathy diet things that people get conned into. In which case, good luck getting the owner to change their mind at all.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

To be totally honest, the owners with their mice (arguable, but still hinting at weirdness so it adds up)

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The mice is definitely a part of what leads me to the weird homeopathy/naturopathy theory. Mice could be a healthy part of a sane, well-researched, species-appropriate diet - this is...clearly not that. Feeding whole prey to dogs and cats happens to be both reasonable in theory and if used properly and also frequently used in communities of animal lovers whose pet health theories seem to be mostly based in woo.

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Originally Posted by Kcl

Sooo if this is what's actually happening...I have a feeling you're not going to be able to convince them of anything at all. People who are just doing things for convenience don't really go to the effort of getting mice and bags of dirt so I feel like that's not it.

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I think a person would be out of line trying to convince the owner his methods are wrong if the above is similar to what the dog owner is following. Especially a business. They have no right to change my methods and if a business really has a problem with it they should simply refuse service.

If this owner is choosing such a lifestyle for his dog and finds out the "dirt" he brought up to be used was thrown away I think he would have every right to be angry. I would be.

In all honesty if I was this owner I would no longer use this business if I found out my plan was not being followed at all and items I brought up were simply thrown away.

The water issue should be discussed by the manager and dog owner. It should be resolved before the dog stays at the facility again.

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Originally Posted by KMG

I think a person would be out of line trying to convince the owner his methods are wrong if the above is similar to what the dog owner is following. Especially a business. They have no right to change my methods and if a business really has a problem with it they should simply refuse service.

If this owner is choosing such a lifestyle for his dog and finds out the "dirt" he brought up to be used was thrown away I think he would have every right to be angry. I would be.

In all honesty if I was this owner I would no longer use this business if I found out my plan was not being followed at all and items I brought up were simply thrown away.

The water issue should be discussed by the manager and dog owner. It should be resolved before the dog stays at the facility again.

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I have to make a point here. Just for example... If someone wanted you to care for their green tree python who is underweight, kept in a glass tank with no perch, tells you to keep in 20% humidity, and feed it only once a month. It's alive and surviving, but not ideal. Would you do what they say, because you have "no right to change their care"? Or would you do what's best for the animal?

As long as they're saying upfront "no I will not feed those mice, no I will not feed that dirt" etc, I really don't believe there's anything wrong with it. They're not obligated to do it. If I had a dog and believed in slapping it in the face three times a day to make sure it "respected" me, I doubt I'd get any doggy daycare to keep up my training methods even if I was entitled to do it that way (note: I don't specifically know the legalities of periodically slapping your dog in the face, but it's illegal not to provide an animal water at all times in some places. The slapping is likely to be ok in more jurisdictions).

If they're lying and saying they'll do it, that's a problem but if not, it's well within their rights and perfectly sensible. Doggy daycares do not take care of your pet in the exact same way you do. Often it's just for practicality rather than thinking the owner's methods are wrong. I don't think it's out of line for an animal care place to say something if they think the owner's methods are abusive - and in some places denying an animal water for any reason is legally defined as such, correctly or incorrectly. It is of course also perfectly within the owner's rights to never go to that place again for any reason whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by KMG

I think a person would be out of line trying to convince the owner his methods are wrong if the above is similar to what the dog owner is following. Especially a business. They have no right to change my methods and if a business really has a problem with it they should simply refuse service.

If this owner is choosing such a lifestyle for his dog and finds out the "dirt" he brought up to be used was thrown away I think he would have every right to be angry. I would be.

In all honesty if I was this owner I would no longer use this business if I found out my plan was not being followed at all and items I brought up were simply thrown away.

The water issue should be discussed by the manager and dog owner. It should be resolved before the dog stays at the facility again.

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Going to add to what red said because I was literally thinking the same thing.

A doggy daycare/ boarding' duty first and foremost is the well being of the dogs and looking after them. Following the instructions of the owner is included but not limited to if said instructions jeopardize the dog's health, then they don't have to comply.

The owners could very well say if the dog barks at all to slap them across the face with a belt, or as treats feed this dog grapes and chocolates, would you follow those instructions out of "respect" of the owner's chosen lifestyle?

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Originally Posted by Kcl

As long as they're saying upfront "no I will not feed those mice, no I will not feed that dirt" etc, I really don't believe there's anything wrong with it. They're not obligated to do it. If I had a dog and believed in slapping it in the face three times a day to make sure it "respected" me, I doubt I'd get any doggy daycare to keep up my training methods even if I was entitled to do it that way (note: I don't specifically know the legalities of periodically slapping your dog in the face, but it's illegal not to provide an animal water at all times in some places. The slapping is likely to be ok in more jurisdictions).

If they're lying and saying they'll do it, that's a problem but if not, it's well within their rights and perfectly sensible. Doggy daycares do not take care of your pet in the exact same way you do. Often it's just for practicality rather than thinking the owner's methods are wrong. I don't think it's out of line for an animal care place to say something if they think the owner's methods are abusive - and in some places denying an animal water for any reason is legally defined as such, correctly or incorrectly. It is of course also perfectly within the owner's rights to never go to that place again for any reason whatsoever.

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heh! You beat me to the punch!