Do you think the drinking age should be 18 again?

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Originally Posted by mooingtricycle

Really? what would one consider Rare?... i think any, is too much personally.
I have to count on two hands in the past Two years where people i know personally or situations i have heard about locally with people that have either died, or were seriously/permenantly injured due to underage drinking accidents, or OUI's ...

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agreed I can think of many an incident that is purely drink related and which was later regretted.

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Originally Posted by Butters420

i understand that.just not why they would have to give up there rights

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When you inducted into any branch of the military you raise your right hand and take an oath that places yourself under the Uniform Code of Military Justice and for all intents and purposes give up all your rights given under the Constitution for the duration of your enlistment.

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Originally Posted by snakey68

agreed I can think of many an incident that is purely drink related and which was later regretted.

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I can think of many people that have received expensive drunk driving convictions and jail sentences, traffic accidents and resulting injuries, people that have had trouble at work from absenteeism, been fired for drinking on the job, gotten into fistfights, marital problems, getting behind in bill paying, cirrhosis of the liver and much more as a result of their friendship with John Barleycorn and I am hard pressed to quickly come up with any redeeming examples. And these aren't minors that I am thinking about.

Why does every single law in this country apply to an 18 year old as an adult except this one? Why is an 18 year old an adult in every single way except this one? Perhaps we are paying too much attention to the 18 year old, and not enough to the drinking.

Alcohol destroys more families, and kills more people than any other substance known to man. Many other substances (that the government can't collect tax revenue on) have been proven to be much much safer than alcohol, yet remain illegal.

Hmmmm, is it really our "safety" they are concerned with? I wonder if legislators discuss this over cocktails?

I think the drinking age should be higher, already it sends bad messages to teens and lots of teens are getting killed because of it. An older friend of my who likes to drink went to a club once and she later told me all people did was drink in fact there wouldnt even have been a party if there was no alcohol, it may not seem bad to some but it does to me. My freshman year of highschool 6 kids got killed because they were drinking and driving. So I say 25 minimal.

As a 19 year old college student I fully endorse an 18 drinking age ;)

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Originally Posted by dsirkle

When you inducted into any branch of the military you raise your right hand and take an oath that places yourself under the Uniform Code of Military Justice and for all intents and purposes give up all your rights given under the Constitution for the duration of your enlistment.

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We swore to abide by the UCMJ which adheres to the Constitution. The UCMJ is constitutional and I have rights given to me by the Constitution. I have to abide by the UCMJ as I swore to do, but I haven't been stripped of any rights, per se. There have been many lawsuits regarding this, but the UCMJ is under the Constitution.

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Originally Posted by Jae iLL

We swore to abide by the UCMJ which adheres to the Constitution. The UCMJ is constitutional and I have rights given to me by the Constitution. I have to abide by the UCMJ as I swore to do, but I haven't been stripped of any rights, per se. There have been many lawsuits regarding this, but the UCMJ is under the Constitution.

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I must consider that fact that it has now been 36 years since I have been in the Army and these law suits that you refer to may have changed things dramatically since that time. We were occasionally officially informed while standing in Company formation that we were under the jurisdiction of the UCMJ and had no rights until ETS. Of course back in those days in Basic training a drill sergeant would while inspecting his platoon knock a man unconscious for not looking straight ahead or some other reason. I have heard that training methods changed after they brought charges against a drill sergeant that did this to a well connected troop years ago. :salute:

I came of age in quebec canada where the legal drinking age is 18. I found most of us had drinking out of our system long before we turned 21. None of my friends drove drunk. In fact alot of them would park at my place or another friends place and walk to the bar. We had a network of friends so we always had someplace to crash within walking distance of the bar. The vast majority of our heavy drinking was done at house parties. No one drove away from them. Most of the people I caught driving after drinking were 25 and over.

Maybe I had an exeptionally mature set of friends as far as the drinking and driving issue is concerned, but I doubt it.

Wow, this poll is split right down the middle... I don't think the drinking age should be lowered to 18. I was 19 and getting wasted in the Middle East where it was legal to drink. I was in no way mature enough to drink the amount I was. If it had not been for the war starting and my MOS ordered to go dry, I would have been an alcoholic.

I disagree with the age that they steal kids away to be murdered. And, I disagree with allowing 18 year olds to drink. Actually, if anything, I think they should make you wait LONGER. Most people (guys especially, no offense) are just, well, not fully there at age 18, and half of them aren't even mature enough at age 21. That's exactly why the military targets that age-group, because for the most part, they're full of hormones and usually don't have families.

i say no due to the fact that as alot of people know when you are 18 you are arrogant, cocky and think you know everything and are 10ft tall and bullet proof so why add to a fire that is already burning lol. must 18 year olds as for myself back in the day when i was 18 are very irresponsible to begin with and when you drink go to a party/ballgame or something most of them drink anyways and you see alot of deaths by teens or drunk driving teens. look at this scenario all teens love summer time due to 4th of july and graduation and all want to go to a party beach of somesort like myrtle beach,cancun,miami beach,panamacity,venus,and so on and now you have40% more people drinking,fighting,driving and being careless and irresponsible. to many people lose there lives or loved ones to drunk drivers every year and to allow the drinking age back to 18 will only cost more lives and more kids being sent to prison for involuntary muder/ by death of a motor vehicle.

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Originally Posted by Bettacreek

I disagree with the age that they steal kids away to be murdered. And, I disagree with allowing 18 year olds to drink. Actually, if anything, I think they should make you wait LONGER. Most people (guys especially, no offense) are just, well, not fully there at age 18, and half of them aren't even mature enough at age 21. That's exactly why the military targets that age-group, because for the most part, they're full of hormones and usually don't have families.

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Last time I checked our military was completely voluntary!

I was very proud to serve my country, as was my sister, my wife, my father, all of my uncles, some of my cousins, my grandfather, and my great grandfather. I am also very proud that my brother still serves today and is scheduled for his next deployment around the 2nd of the year. I can trace my ancestry back through every war that this country has been in and in every single one of them and the policing actions we have been in a member of my family has been there! I am very proud to say my family is willing to die not only for our own freedom, but the freedom of people who can't or are to cowardly to fight for their own freedoms. I believe the only greater sacrifice a person can make is dying for their God. While I hope my daughter serves I also hope she gets an education and can serve as an officer instead of the line of grunts she comes from.

I think the drinking age for beer and wine(maybe a limit of ABV of 14%) should be 18 or 19. I can see arguments for it being 19, it would help prevent high school graduation parties with tons of drinking and kids going overboard.

I'm sure someone in the past 11 pages of this thread has pointed out that most of the world (just look at canada and europe) has a drinking age of 18 or 19. No one from those countries that I've talked to thinks that their drinking age needs to be raised to 21. Granted, most young kids in some countries like france or the UK don't have cars, or even drive at all, and the biggest risk for a younger drinking age is drinking and driving.

I've always been a proponent of stricter drinking and driving penalties. I support a first infraction of above 0.08% getting you a steep fine($10k+), and a second losing your license for 10 years, short jailtime, and another steep fine.

I like that Minnesota has a zero-tolerance policy of drinking and driving for people under 21. If you register any kind of drinking on a test (none of this .08% limit for people of age), you get arrested.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

I think the drinking age for beer and wine(maybe a limit of ABV of 14%) should be 18 or 19.

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And liquors should still have the age limit of 21? Can you please explain this? I'm curious.

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Last time I checked our military was completely voluntary!

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Umm, when did I say anything about whether or not our military crew was there by choice? I said that the government TARGETS the younger age group (I believe it's 18-25). Hence the reason why the commercials show kids with their parents, not 35 year old men with wives and children. It's also the reason why they can be found recruiting in our public high schools.

The drinking age should definately be set to 18 or 19 because in this day and age if your determined enough anyone can get booze.

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Originally Posted by Thor26

The drinking age should definately be set to 18 or 19 because in this day and age if your determined enough anyone can get booze.

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So the solution is, just because anyone can get it, we should make it easier. Sorry that just does not make any sense. :colbert:

21 is an arbitrary number. Nothing in the constitution sets age requirements for alchohol. Many countries have no age requirement for alchohol.

Hi,

Just a note to remind everyone about our zero tolerance policy regarding drugs - this is site wide including off-topic and the Quarantine room.

dr del

No, I dont think the drinking age should be lowered to 18 or 19. I do think that the whole level of adult-hood should be raised to 21. These days, I dont know of a lot of 18 yr olds that have moved away from home & are able to stand on their own. dont get me wrong, i dont think it's strictly a maturity-level deal. I think the economy has a lot to do with it as well. But on the maturity level, I also dont think the 18 yr olds of today are as mature as they were 20 yrs ago.
I know this is going to P.O. a lot of the younger crowd, but that's just what I see with my own eyes...and maybe the fact that in my line of work I am seeing the first generation of crack-babies that are growing up. :O

i'm going to come out and disagree with some of the people claiming that our freshman college students aren't mature enough to drink responsibly. from what i have seen the past 3 years, the freshmen show no difference in drinking maturity than us seniors. the problem is that much of the time they are getting their first drink in a frat house or some other house party and don't have the slightest clue how to handle it. after a semester, they are just fine. i firmly believe if kids were responsibly exposed to these types of things at home in a controlled setting, i would see less freshman trying to drive back to the dorms, puking everywhere, ect....

On a similar topic, many of the problems with underage college and high school students come from the fear of taking friends to the hospital when things go bad. Any one who has been to a college party knows that sometimes things go wrong for no good reason, but the kids are to afraid to get help because they have had a couple beers. No matter your personal opinions on drinking in general, i think we can agree that any system that seems to go out of its way to keep people from getting help is a bad system.

I turned 21 this year and don't think the drinking age should be 18. I've been against it since I was under 18. The reason why other countries have lower drinking ages is because people in other countries don't drink to get so smashed they can't remember what they did. I'm not gonna lie and say I didn't drink underage, I did it quite a bit and even drove while drunk. Very stupid on my part but thankfully I didn't get in an accident or end up killing someone.

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The reason why other countries have lower drinking ages is because people in other countries don't drink to get so smashed they can't remember what they did.

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You have never partied in Tokyo, or any part of Europe have you?

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Maybe we should be talking about instead raising the age to go into the military, vote, etc, to 21 from 18...I know more than a few 18 years olds that wouldn't even be able to point to Afghanistan or Georgia (the country) on a map, much less made educated decisions on politics, public service, and alcohol consumption.

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My feelings 100%

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Originally Posted by Miller

The reason why other countries have lower drinking ages is because people in other countries don't drink to get so smashed they can't remember what they did.

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?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I must disagree.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I must disagree.

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Agreed. Hundred's Club

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Originally Posted by herpguy311

My feelings 100%

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Would you guys also like to raise the age to vote? Most American's (of all ages) that I have met can not even tell you what issues their candidate supported, and when asked, they could not even tell what issues they supported.

The age 21 was chosen by actuaries. Basically the math worked well for 21. I think that the argument regarding drinking and driving deaths going up if the legal drinking age were lowered is crap. As a nation supposedly built on freedom we should not be making laws that restrict the freedom of adults based on slightly lower death rates. The way I see it we either lower the drinking age or increase the age to vote, buy cigarettes, and serve in the military to 21. The rule of law should be applied equally to all adults. We should not be setting ages for adults to have freedom unlocked.

On the topic of the rest of the world's drinking.. I'm pretty damn sure that the US has pretty much less drinking per person than 80% of the rest of the world.

During oktoberfest, germany supposedly drinks as much beer as the US consumes in a year(so I've read.. I'm a little skeptical).

Russian new years is basically a time for everyone 16+ to get skunked as they see how much booze they can pour down their throats.

Europe, australia, china, japan, malaysia, indonesia, australia, just about all of africa, russia.. all places I know for sure have plenty, and I mean PLENTY of falling-your-face-drunk drinking.

I think it should remain 21 for them to purchase liquer/beer, though I did allow my son to drink beer when he was 18 and only under my supervision, and I have to admit it almost came back to bite me in the a$$. He was my DD on my 40th birthday, I told him he could have 4 beers over a period of 4.5 hrs that we were out, I was getting my drink on and trusted him to follow the rules, well it seems that every time my head was turned he was finishing my beer, needless to say, we got blue lighted on the way home he blew at the limit, and I was in no condition to drive, I told the officer, who was very understanding (thank God), that it was my birthday and he couldn't arrest my son, that I wanted him to drive us to the state line and have the NC sherriff drive us home, well he did! Needless to say I don't think at 18 kids know moderation. My son is know 21 and responsible now when it comes to drinking.

I think you should learn how to drink before you learn how to drive....say lower the drinking age to 17 and the driving age to 18 or 19. For one, people would understand how alcohol impairs judgment and lowers reflexes before ever trying to get behind the wheel of a vehicle, and more importantly, they will be going to bars either with someone older who can drive (and theoretically more responsible), walking to the bar, or drinking at a party or at home and STAYING the night there.

this also gives the parents more control, because they can limit how much their teenagers drink while they still live at home, whereas at 21, they have moved out and have no one to look over their shoulder and make sure they aren't doing something stupid

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Originally Posted by Smith285

I think you should learn how to drink before you learn how to drive....say lower the drinking age to 17 and the driving age to 18 or 19. For one, people would understand how alcohol impairs judgment and lowers reflexes before ever trying to get behind the wheel of a vehicle, and more importantly, they will be going to bars either with someone older who can drive (and theoretically more responsible), walking to the bar, or drinking at a party or at home and STAYING the night there.

this also gives the parents more control, because they can limit how much their teenagers drink while they still live at home, whereas at 21, they have moved out and have no one to look over their shoulder and make sure they aren't doing something stupid

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You know...I always thought it was silly that they wanted to lower the drinking age back to 18 WHILE raising the driving age till 17. (I was rear-ended while at a dead stop twice last year...both by 16-17 y/o's) Great...theyll suck at driving..and be drunk doing it...

But you just brought up a point I never really thought of. Kind of scraps the whole "how to time the driving before drinking" scenario, and adopts a more rational one instead. Best idea I have heard yet!! Why the heck didnt I think of that?!

:8:

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Originally Posted by Smith285

I think you should learn how to drink before you learn how to drive....say lower the drinking age to 17 and the driving age to 18 or 19. For one, people would understand how alcohol impairs judgment and lowers reflexes before ever trying to get behind the wheel of a vehicle, and more importantly, they will be going to bars either with someone older who can drive (and theoretically more responsible), walking to the bar, or drinking at a party or at home and STAYING the night there.

this also gives the parents more control, because they can limit how much their teenagers drink while they still live at home, whereas at 21, they have moved out and have no one to look over their shoulder and make sure they aren't doing something stupid

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There are a lot of problems with this.
First off, students can leave home at 17. Without a car?
Most kids get a job at 15 or 16. In a parents position, I wouldn't want to drive them there everyday.
Also, bus systems are not meant to always hold entire classes of juniors and seniors, because they rely on the fact that most of them will drive to school. Parking costs money, so it would be a financial loss to most schools to increase bus amounts with no parking for students.

It's very difficult to be in high school without driving to school. We often have to stay after school for certain projects we can not do at home, and most parents usually work until 5-6ish.

I think it should be 18, and if it changed, change me back to 18 while at it.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Is drinking and driving the SOLE reason you believe the drinking age should be 21? Nothing else comes to mind? Is drinking to blame for it all??

I too was brought up strict, I didn't drink until I moved out... I drank, then when I turned 21, I drank some more in public. In all, I drank heavily after turning 21 for only a few months... Now I haven't really had a drink since.

If raising a child in a super protective environment has bad results when they get out on their own and party hard, then how is it any different if we "protect" them from alcohol and then let them loose? I don't see the difference, and I strongly believe that making alcohol not a BIG deal, we'd see less stupid mistakes made when kids are either out of the parents house or turn 18.

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I didnt get past this post, but I wanted to make sure to respond to it.

How I was brought up around alcohol varied a lot. My parents are divorced and I lived with my mom. My mom was a very open, trusting parent, and pretty much gave me free roam to do whatever I wanted, and I didnt take advantage of that and I was overall a good kid. It was a good system for us because I was responsible enough not to get myself into shtuff that could follow me later. With that said, the other side of the story was my dad. My dad has always been around, and I usually saw him at least once a month until I was an upperclassmen in high school and both of our busy schedules just didnt allow it. Anyway, he is very religious and conservative, and has always tried, is trying and probably always will try to instill conservative morals in me. I could not be much more liberal without being a communist, fyi. It goes without saying, that he is very opposed to underage anything, or anything, even if it is legal, that is "bad".

Now, with all of that said, I drink pretty infrequently, and even when I do, it is usually only a drink or two.

The fact is, Europe has no alcohol problems because they raise their kids without the stress and taboo of dealing with alcohol, so their kids dont go through the "I'm going to drink b/c I am a rebel!" stage, since it is legal and everyone else is doing it.

The other fact is, America isnt and never will be like Europe. Prohibition screwed it up for us for good. The best we can do now is get a majority of the people to feel that there is an issue with the drinking age, and willing to address the issues of lowering it until society becomes more laid back about the issue in general. Once the issue can become passive porch talk and not heated political debate, we have made headway.

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Originally Posted by starmom

Since this country is an alleged Republic, I say leave it up to each state's voting populace to determine the laws for their state, including the drinking age.

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I don't agree with this, but if it fixes the problem for more people, more power to it. I am a federalist at heart and believe that we need a stronger national goverment, with less power to state and local gov's.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

You won't get it from me. I may be an old broad but I still am amazed at how much younger 18 is now then it was when I hit that age. :rolleyes:

Rich, those stats are backed up for me anyways by my own experience years ago working in a small town police department. In that blue collar community, where most everyone worked in a factory, the VAST majority of our drunk drivers were grown men. Men that should have known better but just had to get that car home from the bar. Sadly we had a lot of drunk drivers back then and most were not teens/young adults. Our young poeple even back then were far better educated about drinking and driving and also grew up under a system that more heavily penalized that activity.

Look it's simple for me. You are a legal adult at age 18 for a lot of things. You can marry, fight and die for your country, enter and be held liable to a legal contract, get a credit card, sign a lease, etc. You can live as any adult does except for the ability to have a beer. I think in making this one thing illegal it just makes it all that much more interesting. For me, either you are an adult or you aren't and this ridiculous thing of making the line here for one thing but here for another just is silly.

As far as parental involvement, if you haven't taught your kid by age 18 that certain activities are just plain stupid (drinking and driving in this case) - well I don't think they are going to get it by age 21. For me and mine, age 18 means you're an adult in this house. If you want to act like a stupid kid or act one moment like a child, then the other like a grown-up - too bad for you, you'll still be expected to face any consequence like the adult you are. I love my kids but I don't intend to raise a group of living at home with mom, acting like a kid when I darn well know I delivered your butt 25 years ago pseudo-adults. I've watched some of my friends do that and sorry but I think that disrespects the whole child/parent relationship and is just plain silly.

The line should be clear....now you are a child...now you are an adult with all the freedoms and responsibilities that entails. Your job as a parent is to teach them and get them ready for that line to be crossed, celebrate that they've reached that age and then let them live it, good or bad.

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I was gonna say this too....darn.

But to elaborate...I believe that the majority of the people that are mature enough to make the right choices involving alcohol at age 21 were mature enough at 18 as well, and that the majority of the people that were not mature enough to make the right decisions at 18 will probably not be mature enough at 21, if at all.

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Originally Posted by python.princess

I have all kinds of opinions (for and against) on this subject and couldn't figure out a way to type them all out in any graceful way- just kept jumping around. That said, I'll boil it down to one sentence.

Being a legal adult DOES NOT automatically make you responsible and mature enough to make responsible decisions- especially where alcohol is involved.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that 4 members of my senior class (all 18yo) died before graduation- 3 of them from alcohol related incidents.

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Well said.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

You pretty much hit that nail right on the head there, Ben. Our society of give them a sticker for everything, they can't be allowed to know failure, my child is perfect and can do no wrong is paying a high price in the overly slow maturity level of some of our young people. While there are some shining examples of young adulthood, as there have always been, there are a distressingly high number of adults well into their 20's that quite honestly act and live like they are 14...and then brag about it!

I assume it shows my age but in my high school days we partied, we did stuff we likely should not have done but everyone of us was dying to graduate, become an adult, get a job and our own place (or go off to college). We wanted to be independent of our parents, we ached to be adults. Today I see more and more of my friends supporting their adult children while they "find themselves".

Find themselves? LMAO Any of mine can't "find themselves" will get a word from me about finding a job, finding an apartment and finding some moving boxes. I love my children ever last one of them but I'll have failed miserably as a parent if I fail to raise them into adults that are quite happily independent of mommy's apron strings.



Well sorry to say but that shows that even at age 21 you are still thinking like a rather immature 14 year old dear (my apologies to most 14 year olds lol). I voted yes and I'm a parent of four so your assumptions are like most assumptions - well off base.

It's something to note, however, that my four know better than to use a keyboard to insult others or brag about illegally providing their younger siblings with alcohol.

Do keep partying on. I bet it's just doing you the world of good and setting a fine *cough* example for those younger sibs of yours. :rolleyes:

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I agree that society in general is too lenient on "us", since I fall in the category. I will admit that my parents are still more or less supporting me while I find myself...but at the same time, I do want to be independent. I am going to school full time and working part time, so I dont see myself as the lazy moocher that you refer to.

Also worth noting, coming from a non-drinking student at Michigan State Univeristy (google CedarFest riot if you don't know about MSU's history of drinking problems), the student government is asking the MSU State Police department to enact a no-risk policy for emergencies involving alcohol. For instance....you and some friends are at a party and your drunk friend does something stupid and breaks his arm...no one will take him to the ER because they know they will get busted and get an MIP. This law would protect the people bringing the patient in for treatment. This would also apply to other emergency situations, the broken arm is just an example. Also, I do not know whether or not this law will protect the victim/patient/whatever you wanna call it as well.

There is a lot of rhetoric on this site, and I am not agreeing or disagreeing with their outcome. But here are a few stats for you guys so we can all form an educated opinion.

http://www.cspinet.org/booze/mlpafact.htm

I will try to find a link for a pro 18 drinking age site.

I do not know how you all come to the conclusion that we do not have problems with kids and alcohol over here, because there are HUGE problems.

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/r...nd_Alkohol.png

This chart shows the amount of 15 year olds who drink alcohol on a weekly basis.
In germany kids are allowed to buy beer and wine from age 16, hard stuff from age 18. Driving drunk is a big problem here, but since you have to be 18 at last to drive, it is a little bit different then in the states. But especially in the rural areas, where people have to drive to the party locations there are people dying every weekend.
Myself, living in a big city, do not need to own a car (I used to have one when I was younger, but I sold it, because of a couple of reasons:
a) excellent public transportation, b) I use my bicycle most of the time and c) petrol prices got too expensive (not 8 $ per liter like someone said, but still expensive)) so I am not at risk to drive drunk now, but I have to admit I did it, when I was at age 18-19.
But the biggest problem connected to teenage alcohol consumption is violence, a lot of trouble is caused by drunken youngsters losing control and it ends up messy way to often. England has a huge problem with it ( a lot of teenagers were knife stabbed recently ) and in germany it is also turning to
the worse.
Could write more, but I am at work now and people wanna bet...:taz:

Please forgive me, but my German is a bit rusty. What does Madchen mean?

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Originally Posted by Typical_08

Please forgive me, but my German is a bit rusty. What does Madchen mean?

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Maedchen are girls, Jungen are boys...:D

Some of the countries:

Polen = poland
Frankreich = france
Lettland = latvia
Schweden = sweden
Griechenland = greece
Ungarn = hungary
Spanien = spain
Schweitz = switzerland/swiss
Oestereich = austria

I have a problem with how all the people against lower the drinking age come back to problems with alcohol abuse and problems with drunk driving. I don't think that's the issue at all. What I am hearing is that there is a whole host of people who are ok with giving up their rights to the government because its safer to do so. While we are at it how about we put governors on all cars so they can't go over the speed limit too much. Lets take away the guns because we all know how the math works out there. Lets ban smoking across the board. I thought gambling was illegal for our own good in most states but the state sanctioned gambling has gotten out of control. Lets do away with the state lottery system and all other sanctioned gambling. Lets put limits on the caloric value of meals sold at restaurants, require vaccinations for children by law. Lets make people with dangerous animals for pets register them with their local government. That means you people with American Pit Bull Terriers, Snakes over 5 feet long, and apparently ASF's.

I hope I managed to hit a hot button for everyone reading this post. As a nation we are slowly giving up all of the rights that we once held dear. As a nation we need to stop thinking of our 18 through 20 year olds as kids. They can vote, serve, and enter into contracts. They are adults. This is how the government takes your rights. They make you a minority. Then get the majority to pass a law. You should stand up for that minority groups rights as adults like any other group. Most people are in one minority or another for a right they hold dear. If you don't stand up for the rights of the young maybe they won't stand up for you when the time comes.

Just in case the government is reading this, I also want to state that the only person better than our old president is our new president and no one does as much good for the country as our great intelligence agencies.

Ya know I totally agreed with you until the very last part of your post.

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Originally Posted by Typical_08

You have never partied in Tokyo, or any part of Europe have you?

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amen to that while in germany, italy, Switzerland , and Amsterdam they know how to party and they DOIt To Get DRUNK. i was with my friends parents in germany at a shutsenfest (misspelled) and they kept saying "keep drinking we can carry you when you cant walk." I later fell down a LARGE hill that night.
MEMORIES!!!!!

Anyways drop it to 18 and be done with it.
teach in schools and at home proper use and laws.

I say make it 25, teenagers should not be allowed to drink, at least not at public parties and clubs. I've seen way too many DUIs in my life and too many innocent lives ruined by some knucklehead teenage driver. Sorry but 18 just isn't mature enough.

In fact the legal driving age should be bumped up to 21 in my opinion. Since you guys are throwing European stats around anyone from there? I was BORN and RAISED there, I also know that just any knucklehead can just walk into a DMV office (in the US) take a test my 12 year old daughter could ace, a laughable skills test and obtain a license as easily here in the US.

Where as in Europe they make you go to school study after doing the school bit take a much harder test (oh mind you, you also need to know how to drive a stick) and then take a much harder skills test where they can fail you over one little mistake. That my friends should be the way to get licenses here in the US, and then maybe just maybe we'll stop killing people because of foolish teenagers.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

I have a problem with how all the people against lower the drinking age come back to problems with alcohol abuse and problems with drunk driving. I don't think that's the issue at all. What I am hearing is that there is a whole host of people who are ok with giving up their rights to the government because its safer to do so. While we are at it how about we put governors on all cars so they can't go over the speed limit too much. Lets take away the guns because we all know how the math works out there. Lets ban smoking across the board. I thought gambling was illegal for our own good in most states but the state sanctioned gambling has gotten out of control. Lets do away with the state lottery system and all other sanctioned gambling. Lets put limits on the caloric value of meals sold at restaurants, require vaccinations for children by law. Lets make people with dangerous animals for pets register them with their local government. That means you people with American Pit Bull Terriers, Snakes over 5 feet long, and apparently ASF's.

I hope I managed to hit a hot button for everyone reading this post. As a nation we are slowly giving up all of the rights that we once held dear. As a nation we need to stop thinking of our 18 through 20 year olds as kids. They can vote, serve, and enter into contracts. They are adults. This is how the government takes your rights. They make you a minority. Then get the majority to pass a law. You should stand up for that minority groups rights as adults like any other group. Most people are in one minority or another for a right they hold dear. If you don't stand up for the rights of the young maybe they won't stand up for you when the time comes.

Just in case the government is reading this, I also want to state that the only person better than our old president is our new president and no one does as much good for the country as our great intelligence agencies.

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The government (specifically liberals) don't want you to think for yourself and suffer consequences of your own decisions. they'd rather the government control everything, and it's a scary path we are heading down.

That being said, I think this whole discussion is hypothetical anyway, and we all know the drinking age will never be changed, unless people aged 18-21 get out and vote in HUGE numbers in the next 20 years.

And also, I'm pretty sure the last comment was to save his butt from the FBI or CIA who might be scanning the internet :P

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Originally Posted by starmom

Since this country is an alleged Republic, I say leave it up to each state's voting populace to determine the laws for their state, including the drinking age.

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Actually, that would be a democracy ;)

A republic has the population vote people into office, and then those people make the laws, which is why it's so important to know the character and stances of the people you are voting into office.

Also, it is technically up to each state to determine the drinking age, but it was agreed upon by all the states to make it 21 across the board.

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Originally Posted by JKExotics

I say make it 25, teenagers should not be allowed to drink, at least not at public parties and clubs. I've seen way too many DUIs in my life and too many innocent lives ruined by some knucklehead teenage driver. Sorry but 18 just isn't mature enough.

In fact the legal driving age should be bumped up to 21 in my opinion. Since you guys are throwing European stats around anyone from there? I was BORN and RAISED there, I also know that just any knucklehead can just walk into a DMV office (in the US) take a test my 12 year old daughter could ace, a laughable skills test and obtain a license as easily here in the US.

Where as in Europe they make you go to school study after doing the school bit take a much harder test (oh mind you, you also need to know how to drive a stick) and then take a much harder skills test where they can fail you over one little mistake. That my friends should be the way to get licenses here in the US, and then maybe just maybe we'll stop killing people because of foolish teenagers.

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I agree with the drinking part. All of my mothers accidents were due to being hit by a drunk (any slightly severe ones), and my fathers were all his fault, as he was drunk.
I agree the driving test is easy sometimes, but my boyfriend who got a 35 on the ACT, failed the first time, and was a very good driver. I know how to drive stick as well, I prefer it.
What tests are you talking about that are easier or harder? European tests, I was told are not that much of a higher level than ours, unless there at a very high specific school. Unlike the Japanese, where they go to school most of the hours of the day and most of the days of the week.

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Originally Posted by Smith285

Also, it is technically up to each state to determine the drinking age, but it was agreed upon by all the states to make it 21 across the board.

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They didn't "agree" to make it 21 across the board, exactly. The federal government decided that they would only give money to build roads to states that had a drinking age of 21. Basically, the federal government passed a nationwide drinking age without actually passing a law. IMO this is a grievous overstepping of authority, trampling on state's and voter's rights.

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Originally Posted by Smith285

Actually, that would be a democracy ;)

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Umm. We are a republic.

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"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for all."

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A republic has the population vote people into office, and then those people make the laws, which is why it's so important to know the character and stances of the people you are voting into office.

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That is what we do.