Pit Bulls

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

I've talked about this. Sigfried and Roy had similar sweet tigers. They were then about 2 seconds away from being a one man act. My wolf/husky and bobcat/bengal/house cat will be just as sweet when I'm done raising them. That doesn't change their geneticly aggressive disposition. I continue to say that pits can make wonderful sweet pets with the proper upbringing. That doesn't change what they are. And once again, why do people who want an overly aggressive killer of a dog always buy a pitbull? No reason, I'm sure.

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I addressed this in another post. Pits have a tenacity, a gameness to them and pound for pound I don't believe there is a stronger more capable dog for what these nasty people want... What I'm telling you is that when properly bred, they're not overly aggressive at all... their abuse begins very early on oops, I mean their training begins very early on and they do become monsters. Pit bulls aren't wild animals that react on instinct to everything... like lions, tigers, wolves... THEY'RE JUST DOGS!

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Originally Posted by gibbrishclown

I addressed this in another post. Pits have a tenacity, a gameness to them and pound for pound I don't believe there is a stronger more capable dog for what these nasty people want... What I'm telling you is that when properly bred, they're not overly aggressive at all... their abuse begins very early on oops, I mean their training begins very early on and they do become monsters. Pit bulls aren't wild animals that react on instinct to everything... like lions, tigers, wolves... THEY'RE JUST DOGS!

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Wolves are just dogs. So are Dingos, the first true dogs. Do these need training to become killers? Does anyone honestly think that the data is so skewed that the 500x-1000x danger rate of pits can ever be adjusted to show that they are no more dangerous than most other breeds? Even if 1/2 of all cases are 100% a direct result of the owners' abuse? Anyone?

aggresive DOGS(not just pits) are not born, they are raised. same goes for human criminals. liveing things are not born to kill or commit crimes, (unless for food, but i mean as against the law) i hate the fact that people assume pitbulls are so dangerous. I have heard so many times that pitbulls should be outlawed, but that person owns guns...just as those pets, guns dont kill people, people kill people...i see so many pitbulls that are so kind, and playfull. In fact if you havnt noticed, palmeranians are far more vicious than pitbulls..lol

sorry for mispelling.

You make some good points, but sorry, wolves are WILD ANIMALS. They have an innate fear of humans and instinctive aggression towards other dogs. Mixing them with huskies has been known to bring out the worst traits in both breeds. A pit bull is a domesticated animal. I don't have statistics on ownership, but don't you think there are FAR more owners of pit bulls than there are of wolf hybrids? If there were just as many hybrids as pit bulls, I think there might be a more striking comparison in data. IMO keeping a wolf is just like keeping a tiger as a pet.

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Originally Posted by bonez

aggresive DOGS(not just pits) are not born, they are raised. same goes for human criminals. liveing things are not born to kill or commit crimes, (unless for food, but i mean as against the law) i hate the fact that people assume pitbulls are so dangerous. I have heard so many times that pitbulls should be outlawed, but that person owns guns...just as those pets, guns dont kill people, people kill people...i see so many pitbulls that are so kind, and playfull. In fact if you havnt noticed, palmeranians are far more vicious than pitbulls..lol

sorry for mispelling.

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You are making WAY more assumptions in that paragraph than I have in this entire thread. Pomeranians might be more aggressive than pits. So you admit that different breeds of dogs have different inborn tendancies as far as aggression goes. That's a good start. And let's not get into human inborn tendancies.

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Originally Posted by darkangel

You make some good points, but sorry, wolves are WILD ANIMALS. They have an innate fear of humans and instinctive aggression towards other dogs. Mixing them with huskies has been known to bring out the worst traits in both breeds. A pit bull is a domesticated animal. I don't have statistics on ownership, but don't you think there are FAR more owners of pit bulls than there are of wolf hybrids? If there were just as many hybrids as pit bulls, I think there might be a more striking comparison in data. IMO keeping a wolf is just like keeping a tiger as a pet.

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Wolves are wild animals, not bred bred to be man's best friend. However, pitbulls were not bred to be man's best friend, either. Again, I like pits and think they can be trained to make great pets, but I don't think that their predisposition can ever be overlooked, whether you paint their nails pink and give them pink fringey collars or not (my girlfriend's friend does this). Wolf hybrids are potentially dangerous, wild animals. At least I know this and admit it and would take the proper precautions while NEVER underestimate there instinctual aggression and capabilities. Since I keep giving direct replies, why don't you give a realistic and thought out response to my questions about the data on deaths and maimings committed by pits compared to other breeds. And why hasn't anybody commented on my awesome little rott/mix puppy in his argyle sweater?

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Originally Posted by bonez

aggresive DOGS(not just pits) are not born, they are raised. same goes for human criminals. liveing things are not born to kill or commit crimes, (unless for food, but i mean as against the law) i hate the fact that people assume pitbulls are so dangerous. I have heard so many times that pitbulls should be outlawed, but that person owns guns...just as those pets, guns dont kill people, people kill people...i see so many pitbulls that are so kind, and playfull. In fact if you havnt noticed, palmeranians are far more vicious than pitbulls..lol

sorry for mispelling.

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Also, if Poms are more aggressive than pits, that doesn't change the fact that pits are some of the most powerful dogs. They are aggressive, and when they want to get you, you're not going to walk away from that fight looking very pretty, if at all. GTP's are way more aggressive than sea krates, but I'll take on 10,000 aggressive chondros before I let a single bad intentioned krate near me.

LOL I like your rottie mix in his little sweater, I have a rottie/husky mix myself:
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9...xiecopyyh3.jpg
I feel like I have responded directly to you concerning the data. I responded that I feel the majority of this is improper ownership. I agree that these dogs are bred to be aggressive towards other dogs, but I don't agree that they are aggressive towards people. And I think in most cases of this aggression, the owner was not properly restraining, controlling, training, handling the dog. No dog should be loose in a public place. No dog should be allowed to run free with unfamiliar dogs. I know you don't want to listen to me say this but I think the biggest problem is people. I'm not denying data. I'm giving my opinion.

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Originally Posted by darkangel

LOL I like your rottie mix in his little sweater, I have a rottie/husky mix myself:
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9...xiecopyyh3.jpg
I feel like I have responded directly to you concerning the data. I responded that I feel the majority of this is improper ownership. I agree that these dogs are bred to be aggressive towards other dogs, but I don't agree that they are aggressive towards people. And I think in most cases of this aggression, the owner was not properly restraining, controlling, training, handling the dog. No dog should be loose in a public place. No dog should be allowed to run free with unfamiliar dogs. I know you don't want to listen to me say this but I think the biggest problem is people. I'm not denying data. I'm giving my opinion.

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Woo-hoo! I agree with a lot of what you are saying! Of course while not backing down from anything I've already said.

Truce. :D

German Shepherds, Australian Shepherds, Akitas, and many other breeds weren't bred to be mans best friend either. They were bred to do a job.

The pit was never bred to be human agressive so your little history lesson is off anyway. The more you post the more I believe that you have a deep seated fear of these dogs, that's just my personal opinion but come on. You claim to be a fan of the breed and then compair them to wild animals every opportunity and do your best to convince us they are crazy killers bearly under control.

And reguarding the statistics, most of the us cannot positively identify a pitbull. There have been a few cases where people have said pits did the damage and it was later found to be a different breed entirely (once was a border collie) so I'm sorry, I don't put much weight in statistics that can quite easily be manipulated in one form or another.

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Originally Posted by Entropy

And reguarding the statistics, most of the us cannot positively identify a pitbull. There have been a few cases where people have said pits did the damage and it was later found to be a different breed entirely (once was a border collie) so I'm sorry, I don't put much weight in statistics that can quite easily be manipulated in one form or another.

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Did you read the report?

"this table covers only attacks by dogs of clearly identified
breed type or ancestry, as designated by animal control officers or others
with evident expertise, who have been kept as pets."

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Originally Posted by Entropy

German Shepherds, Australian Shepherds, Akitas, and many other breeds weren't bred to be mans best friend either. They were bred to do a job.

Your examples weren't bred to be vicious like Pits. However, those breeds are still responsible for quite a few more deaths and attacks than most breeds.

The pit was never bred to be human agressive so your little history lesson is off anyway.

I didn't give any history lessons. I thought we all had agreed on the history of pits here several pages ago, however.

The more you post the more I believe that you have a deep seated fear of these dogs,

No, I am around these dogs overy few days at least. About 8 different pits. I'm not afraid of them, but I do respect what they are capable of and what their natural instincts are, whether burried away from awesome training or up front.

that's just my personal opinion but come on. You claim to be a fan of the breed and then compair them to wild animals every opportunity and do your best to convince us they are crazy killers bearly under control.

I never said that they were as dangerous as any of the animals I used in my analogies, but staying in context with what I've said when I used these analogies, the analogies are fair. I wouldn't, and I didn't say that pits were comparable to wild animals in the way you are implying.

And reguarding the statistics, most of the us cannot positively identify a pitbull. There have been a few cases where people have said pits did the damage and it was later found to be a different breed entirely (once was a border collie) so I'm sorry, I don't put much weight in statistics that can quite easily be manipulated in one form or another.

Like I said before, you would need a MASSIVE weight to say that these statistics are so far off that pits are not way more dangerous than most other breeds of dog. I mean, 500x - 1,000x more maulings or deaths by pits than most of the other breeds, come on now. Like I've said, those statistics could be off by more than any margin or error in the history of statistics, and pits would still be way at the top of the list.

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Lawrence, I tend to gravitate towards the animal planet channel, when I see 'experts' on shows such as Animal Cops totally misidentify a dog I'm sorry, but they lose the place of 'expert' in my mind, I still stand by my last post.

And Jake, in my years teaching dog obedience I spent a lot of time with pits as well since I was one of the few who would accept them in my area.

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Originally Posted by Entropy

Lawrence, I tend to gravitate towards the animal planet channel, when I see 'experts' on shows such as Animal Cops totally misidentify a dog I'm sorry, but they lose the place of 'expert' in my mind, I still stand by my last post.

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That's true. It is just one report, but at least it appears that they were trying to make it as accurate as possible. It could be that many people misidentified the species, or that Pits get more news coverage than other dogs, or even that more "bad" people will get Pits in order to train them to be vicious.

Still... I think it does show that these dogs are more prone to aggression than other breeds. I also found it interesting that they didn't care if the person was a child or an adult as opposed to all of the other dog breeds which tend to attack children more often.

Personally I think alot of incidents with other species aren't reported. For instance, Jack Russell terriers, other toy breeds, etc... For exactly the reasons others have mentioned -- no one is going to report a dog bite that doesn't cause an excess of harm. This does not make the breed less aggressive, but it does decrease the likelihood that it will be reported. Before I'm jumped on, I do understand that a pit or a german shepherd is going to do quite a bit more damage in an attack. But I just don't believe all incidents are reported. In my dealings with smaller dogs I have found them to be MUCH more likely to bite, snap, and growl.

And Lawrence, I noticed that it stated they were pets. This might be true, however even people who mistreat their animals classify them as 'pets'. So while it may sound like these were just everyday good ol dogs it's very likely that many came from abusive backgrounds or lived in unstable home environments.

I believe that any death or maiming would probably be reported :) I also believe that there are plenty of minor pit bites that don't get reported. We are talking about how dangerous a dog can be, not which dogs are more likely to nip at your shins.

Yes, it might be reported but as someone stated earlier it could just as likely be ignored since the animal isn't one that would make news sell.

Honestly, people would buy 'PIT BULL KILLS 2'

But the same people would probably walk right by 'GOLDEN RETRIEVER KILLS 2' thinking it was a typo.

They have sensationalized these dogs, why report facts when it doesn't sell?

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Originally Posted by Entropy

And Lawrence, I noticed that it stated they were pets. This might be true, however even people who mistreat their animals classify them as 'pets'. So while it may sound like these were just everyday good ol dogs it's very likely that many came from abusive backgrounds or lived in unstable home environments.

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To add to my previous arguments, without taking back anything I've said, a dog that is raised to be a killer is just as harmful to public safety as the same dog that is just naturally aggressive. Since you guys keep saying everyone who wants a viscious dog gets a pit, I can deduce that pits are still the most dangerous dog even if we are completely wrong about pits being more predisposed to being dangerous and aggressive, which we aren't.

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Originally Posted by Entropy

Yes, it might be reported but as someone stated earlier it could just as likely be ignored since the animal isn't one that would make news sell.

Honestly, people would buy 'PIT BULL KILLS 2'

But the same people would probably walk right by 'GOLDEN RETRIEVER KILLS 2' thinking it was a typo.

They have sensationalized these dogs, why report facts when it doesn't sell?

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The media isn't profiting from the data sheets in this thread. Sorry.

Besides, "Pit Bull Kills 2" is old news. I'd be way more likely to buy a paper that reads, "Toy Pomeranian (With Papers) Kills 2"

No, they have been stereotyped into the 'vicious dog' by media and misinformed people.

And no, they aren't profiting from them directly but evil pit stories sure sell better because of them.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

I believe that any death or maiming would probably be reported :) I also believe that there are plenty of minor pit bites that don't get reported. We are talking about how dangerous a dog can be, not which dogs are more likely to nip at your shins.

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I guarantee you that a pit bite is far more likely to be reported than one from another breed. If all bites were reported, the pit's rankings would drop. Unfortunately, there is a much lower margin of tolerance for pits.
If a Golden Retriever bites somebody, it's assumed he's either acting out of character ("Something must have stressed the poor guy, he's never done that before!") or acting reasonably ("He just sensed something wrong") and life goes on as usual for him. If a pit lifts a lip at somebody, it's "OMGZ!! Vicious brute!!! I knew you couldn't trust them!!!" and off he goes to the pound.

Until people are not acting on stereotypes, the reporting will continue to be biased.

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Originally Posted by Entropy

Yes, that's right. I'll remind Ty of that next time he's getting his hiney handed to him by a cat 1/4 his weight. You can see the shifty look of the vicious killer right here. :rolleyes: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/IMG_0341.jpg

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I didn't catch this pro-pit bull propaganda earlier LOL. Try telling tigers that they are "dangerous wild animals" right after this guy finishes getting man-handled... by a GIRL! LMAO.

http://www.inkednation.com/images/us...0710316652.jpg

I honestly would think people that keep reptiles and especially snakes as pets would be less susceptible to stereotypes and stigmas.

Slartibartfast -- I agree with you -- I have been in situations where people defended their dog's (non-pit) behavior and made excuses for it. There should never be an excuse for a dog biting someone without provocation. But I have heard the "stressed out" and the "it's because he doesn't know you". If a dog is that stressed out by a stranger, they shouldn't be sitting in the living room when I come to your house. My grandmother actually laughed when the poodle incident happened and made some comment about how 'feisty the little guy was'. I know play and I know an attack.

Tigers are dangerous! Stop it! :sabduel:

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Originally Posted by slartibartfast

I guarantee you that a pit bite is far more likely to be reported than one from another breed. If all bites were reported, the pit's rankings would drop. Unfortunately, there is a much lower margin of tolerance for pits.
If a Golden Retriever bites somebody, it's assumed he's either acting out of character ("Something must have stressed the poor guy, he's never done that before!") or acting reasonably ("He just sensed something wrong") and life goes on as usual for him. If a pit lifts a lip at somebody, it's "OMGZ!! Vicious brute!!! I knew you couldn't trust them!!!" and off he goes to the pound.

Until people are not acting on stereotypes, the reporting will continue to be biased.

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That's just like, your opinion, man. Complete speculation. It probably has some merit, but it's almost irrevilant here. The discussion is about public safety, maulings and kills, not dogs that nip at people.

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Originally Posted by darkangel

I honestly would think people that keep reptiles and especially snakes as pets would be less susceptible to stereotypes and stigmas.

Slartibartfast -- I agree with you -- I have been in situations where people defended their dog's (non-pit) behavior and made excuses for it. There should never be an excuse for a dog biting someone without provocation. But I have heard the "stressed out" and the "it's because he doesn't know you". If a dog is that stressed out by a stranger, they shouldn't be sitting in the living room when I come to your house. My grandmother actually laughed when the poodle incident happened and made some comment about how 'feisty the little guy was'. I know play and I know an attack.
:sabduel:

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I fully agree. My dog isn't allowed to mouth or jump up on anyone for any reason ever. No excuses.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

That's just like, your opinion, man. Complete speculation. It probably has some merit, but it's almost irrevilant here. The discussion is about public safety, maulings and kills, not dogs that nip at people.

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It's not just an opinion. It's based on years of experience working with dogs in high-stress situations, where my safety and that of my co-workers depends on judging a dog's behavior from the get-go.

You continue to cite the statistics as proof that pits are inherantly dangerous. questioning the validity of that data is not "irrelivant". If the numbers are exagerated, the foundation for your entire argument crumbles.

PS: I'm a woman.

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Originally Posted by slartibartfast

\
PS: I'm a woman.

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I know. That was a quote from The Big Lebowski. I don't paraphrase when the Dude is involved.

I see a lot of steryotyping going on here. The only reason pits may get those high stats (and I'm not saying they are true) is because they are payed more attention to and are reported more. Yes, pits cause more bodily harm due to thier size and strength, but that doesn't mean they are naturally born aggressive.

You cannot judge an ENTIRE breed based on the actions of some because of neglect and abuse. Pits are not any more aggressive than other dogs. Its just that when they bite, its on a bigger scale.

When I was young, my grandmother's yorkie, who had been with me since birth, suddenly bit me one day. There was no cause behind it. I went to pet her while we were outside and she turned around and bit my hand. She broke the skin slightly but I couldn't understand why she had bitten me. Now if a pit had done the same, even barely breaking skin or even just causing a bruise, my family would have reported it. Why, because pits are thought to be dangerous. If you introduce a child with no previous misconceptions about pits, to a loving family pitbull, that child is probably very unlikely to be afraid. I have NEVER been afraid to approach a large dog as long as the handler said it was ok.

If people would just take the time to train thier dogs, NO MATTER WHAT THE BREED and provide proper fencing, then I think the number of attacks would diminish. And if other attacks by other breeds of dogs were to be reported, that list would equal out I think. All dogs have some instictual aggression. Thats how a pack system works. You dominate or be dominated. So, if a dog is raised to be non-human aggressive and is trained to view ALL humans as dominant, you are less likely to have an aggressive dog.

Our dog Broc, I miss him so much. He could scare the bejeezes out of you by just standing there. He was huge. 165lbs. People never came into our yard when he was outside. He never even had to bark. You would think that this huge rottie with a thick build would be the perfect watchdog and aggressive. Truth is, he was a teddybear and let a cat push him around. (literally, he was submissive to cats.)

This is a people issue, not a breed issue. I'm not saying that all pit owners are bad dog owners, but many of them need to step up to the plate and provide proper training for their dogs.

A while back there was a pit rescue at a local petstore. Not many people were interested and walked on by. But I walked right on over and was greeted by a friendly tail-wagging pit. He was such a cutie.

We need to stop bickering about whether the dogs are naturally aggressive or raised that way (personally I think they are raised that way) and just get to the point. Banning these dogs are wrong. There are too many people out there who have pits that are beloved family members and have done nothing wrong. When they enact the ban, families have 30 days to get rid of thier pitbull (most likely will be sent to shelter and put down). I want you to look at your dog tonight and ask yourself. "Could I give up this important part of my life just because of its breed?" Chances are, you couldn't. I know that if suddenly, I was no longer able to have Zim because she is a snake (and therefore dangerous in the eyes of thousands Americans) I would be devistated. Same goes for my cats and dogs. No dog deserves to be torn from its family because it was born with a certain appearance.

So before you go to bed tonight, look at your dog (or cat for those of you without dogs) and ask yourself. "What would I do if he/she had to leave because he/she was a certain breed?"

I can't believe I just saw this thread...

Pit Bulls are my favorite dogs
I'd have a few if I didn't live in an apartment. When we do buy a house I'll be adopting a pit bull as soon as I can.

Out of all of the dogs that have come in and out of my life while volunteering in shelters I still prefer pits over any other dog. I've never been bit by a pit. I can't say the same for labs, poodles, toy breeds, designer mutts. ect.

Unless you've actually owned a pit bull or personally been around them for extended periods of time I don't think you can really have an opinion or make judgements on the breed. Reading news articles that are usually biased or misidentifying the breed doesn't count as being educated on the subject.

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Originally Posted by joyful girl

I can't believe I just saw this thread...

Pit Bulls are my favorite dogs
I'd have a few if I didn't live in an apartment. When we do buy a house I'll be adopting a pit bull as soon as I can.

Out of all of the dogs that have come in and out of my life while volunteering in shelters I still prefer pits over any other dog. I've never been bit by a pit. I can't say the same for labs, poodles, toy breeds, designer mutts. ect.

Unless you've actually owned a pit bull or personally been around them for extended periods of time I don't think you can really have an opinion or make judgements on the breed. Reading news articles that are usually biased or misidentifying the breed doesn't count as being educated on the subject.

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That is so true! The pit I have now is the first one I have ever owned and is the greastest dog I have ever had! He was a rescue and is now the smartest, best behaved lover of a dog I have ever known.
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w.../BabyHarry.jpg Everyone that meets him is instantly afraid because of what they hear, but after a few minutes they forget he is a pit because he is sooo sweet and friendly. He just wants love like any other dog and understands so many words and phrases. Remember the Little Rascals show, Petey was a pit.

I don't have a lot of experience with pits but my aunt has one and she is very pleasant to be around. In fact, if you don't tell her enough is enough, she would lay in your lap all day long. She doesn't seem any meaner than any other breeds. During christmas when I went home the dog hadn't seen me for a while and was a little weary of me but thats to be expected I suppose. Im pretty sure that lasted all of 3 minutes and as soon as I pet her it was over and she was in love.

She is kind of a weird dog though. Not behavior-wise but shes just really short. Like I said though, not really familiar with Pits but this one strikes me as unusually short and Im pretty positive she isn't mixed.

Anyone know about the average height of a pit to the top of their backs?

We haven't really made any judgements or made any opinions here. We've also agreed with a lot of what has been said about the owners having a lot to do with the dogs' behavior. We've also said that the statistics could be biased and incorrect. But nobody has argued with me on the fact that they would have to be so skewed to show that pits are as safe as other breeds, that it is virtually impossible to ever reasonable come to that conclusion. Nobody here ever said that they think pits should be banned, or anything to that nature, nor did anyone say that all pits are bad dogs. You keep saying the same things to defend pits, and that YOUR'S are great dogs, while ignoring the very real points that we have brought up. So far you raised a pit or two that hasn't attacked anyone. I get it and I'm very happy for you. Again, people who breed snakes, or cresties, or corns, or anything for that matter, refering to most of the people on this site, know very well what the outcome of line breeding for specific traits is, as do you all now know the traits pits were bred for. I agree, just about every pit can be raised in a way that makes it a good pet. That was never my point, and I don't see why it's taken so many pages for everyone to repeat the same simple things.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

I appologize if I came off nasty. I never meant to and I have agreed with a lot of things the pit bull defenders have said. I think way more so than any of you admit to the truths of what the other side have brought up. And again, I'm not anti-pit, I like them and will probably own one or two when I have the proper environment and time. I would just like to hear more of you admit that pit bulls are a much greater risk to safety than the average breed of dog. That's all.

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PythonWallace, I never said they were not. What I did say is that owning a pit bull is unlike owning any other dog. I agree pit bulls can, and will be dangerous dogs in the wrong hands, but in all honesty, in the wrong hands and not training, any dog can bite or injure someone.

However any dog, any animal, can bite, and usually do. How many of us here can say they have never been tagged by one of their snakes? Not me. It is just that pit bulls make news for some reason. I know of a woman who has a pit bull as a service dog, do you ever hear about things like that?

They can be good, they can be bad. Fifteen years ago German shepards were the nasty media villians, now its pit bulls. I wonder what breed they will target next?

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Originally Posted by Mina

PythonWallace, I never said they were not. What I did say is that owning a pit bull is unlike owning any other dog. I agree pit bulls can, and will be dangerous dogs in the wrong hands, but in all honesty, in the wrong hands and not training, any dog can bite or injure someone.

However any dog, any animal, can bite, and usually do. How many of us here can say they have never been tagged by one of their snakes? Not me. It is just that pit bulls make news for some reason. I know of a woman who has a pit bull as a service dog, do you ever hear about things like that?

They can be good, they can be bad. Fifteen years ago German shepards were the nasty media villians, now its pit bulls. I wonder what breed they will target next?

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Akitas are getting a lot more attention now as well. I think they are beautiful dogs, others think they are baby eaters... :p

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Originally Posted by Mina

PythonWallace, I never said they were not. What I did say is that owning a pit bull is unlike owning any other dog. I agree pit bulls can, and will be dangerous dogs in the wrong hands, but in all honesty, in the wrong hands and not training, any dog can bite or injure someone.

However any dog, any animal, can bite, and usually do. How many of us here can say they have never been tagged by one of their snakes? Not me. It is just that pit bulls make news for some reason. I know of a woman who has a pit bull as a service dog, do you ever hear about things like that?

I saw a lady with a pit service dog on the news.

They can be good, they can be bad. Fifteen years ago German shepards were the nasty media villians, now its pit bulls. I wonder what breed they will target next?

Probably a dog that shows a tendancy to be way more of a danger to public safety than most breeds. Possibally Akitas or Rottweilers?

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I haven't read through every page of this post, but I have to say that thinking like this gets me riled. We had German Shepherds and Rottweilers growing up, and I have owned 2 'pits' since becoming an adult myself. When I was growing up, it was more the Shepherds that were thought of as vicious dogs that I remember, because pit bulls and Rottweilers weren't as popular. Anyways, to the point. I personally have been attacked not by Rotts or pits, but by Chows twice. Once was by a Chow that I had known for 2 or 3 years, my friends dog. I walked over to her house one day, he was sitting under the porch steps and tore my left leg to the bone before I even knew what was going on. The second time, I was walking one of our Rottie pups, when two chows came running up. Luckily my friend's father saw what was going on and came out with a pipe to drive them off. I volunteered at two different vet clinics growing up and only ever had a problem with the Chows. That being said, do I hate Chows, no. I do realize that backyard-bred dogs many times to have behavioral (sp) issues. I think the main reason for Pit Bulls being one of the top dogs to attack people are because of the people raising and breeding them. Responsible breeders breed for correct temperament and type. Backyard breeders breed whatever is lying around, and with pit bulls, the dogs that are the most agressive. It just so happens that most people that want pits and Rotts are stupid people that want a mean, scary-looking dog and a lot of the time, they do their best to provoke aggressive behavior. My two pit bulls were extremely sweet dogs. Shasta was an American Staffordshire Terrier that we came across at a shelter. She was all of 3 months old and they were going to put her down because she chewed on people's fingers. Come on, people! She was a puppy and I broke her of that within the first two days, but because of her breed and the fact that she 'bit' people, she was going to be put down. Our second dog is a pit mix. She was from a shelter as well, and was obviously abused before we got her. The only time she has ever shown any aggression is when her buddy (a neighbor's Sheltie) was attacked by our other neighbor's Lab-mix. Even though she was actively fighting with the other dog, when that dog was removed, she calmed down to her usual self. She allows our children to climb all over her, feed her kibble one morsel at a time, etc. She is a very sweet dog. I do feel that ownership of large dogs should be regulated because of the damage they can do in the wrong hands, but I don't think any breed of dog should be banned. Whew, sorry for the long post!

Oops, forgot something...I know, I know crazy-long post to have forgotten something, but...

I hope this doesn't come across as offensive, but here it is. I think it's kind of crazy that people who deal with antagonism towards our own animals (herps) is mirroring those feelings towards another species/type of animal. This is the same type of thinking that is making it possible to ban herp keeping/breeding, is it not?

*goes to check her flame-retardant suit*

I've noticed Rotties being brought up an awful lot in the thread so I'll share the story of my husbands Rott, Ronin. We purchased Ronin as a pup in 2003. German bred, not american and every bit a cuddler. During his puppy years if you had to correct him for something and gave him the 'evil look' and 'PSSSSH' sound he'd act as though you were ripping his fur off, yelp and come groveling over. This response just because of a non physical reprimand.
As he got older he picked up his training well, loved other dogs, LOVED people and loved loved loved to go 'bye bye'.
He and Rayne were housemates, we took them everywhere including work. More people were afraid of Rayne for her pit appearance but after a few moments gave in and made over her like the perfect creature she knew (and still knows mind you) that she is. Ronin's only fault was that he was more of a wetmouth and 'shower you with kisses' takes on a whole new meaning for the owner of a wetmouth dog.
I took them both to my obedience classes where they would calmly sit in the corner while my clients and their dogs worked towards the middle. Many brought their children which would run over and sit on both dogs who babysat just fine till their ears started getting pulled then they'd stand up and come lay behind me.
In many of my classes were other breeds such as dobes, rotts, german shepherds (lots of GS's) and of course pit types. Not once did a fight break out, not once did my 'dangerous agressive' dogs even begin to start an issue.
The only time Ronin would show a protective streak was in his own home. If someone he did not know walked through the door without one of us he wouldn't let him any farther in then the rug. He'd body block him and give him nasty looks, not attack, not maim, not kill. Just body block him.
People make bad dogs, dogs just have no choice but to go with it.

Would you be more worried about a pit or a dobermann?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bonez

Would you be more worried about a pit or a dobermann?

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I'll admit that Dobies make me a little nervous sometimes...they are so very tense and wound up...sometimes they go off from fear. I don't consider them agressive though, just fearful. Most are still big sweeties, even if they're nervous.

The only dogs that make me uncomfortable are Shar Peis and Presa canarios. Do I hate them or want them banned though? Nope.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Entropy

The only dogs that make me uncomfortable are Shar Peis and Presa canarios. Do I hate them or want them banned though? Nope.

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Shar Peis are definitely on the "do not trust" list for me...they are terribly suspicious of strangers, and they do -not- give any warning when they snap. I know some wonderful mixes though, and a handful of nice individuals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silverdust

I think it's kind of crazy that people who deal with antagonism towards our own animals (herps) is mirroring those feelings towards another species/type of animal. This is the same type of thinking that is making it possible to ban herp keeping/breeding, is it not?

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EXCELLENT POST!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silverdust

Oops, forgot something...I know, I know crazy-long post to have forgotten something, but...

I hope this doesn't come across as offensive, but here it is. I think it's kind of crazy that people who deal with antagonism towards our own animals (herps) is mirroring those feelings towards another species/type of animal. This is the same type of thinking that is making it possible to ban herp keeping/breeding, is it not?

*goes to check her flame-retardant suit*

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I mentioned something to this effect earlier in the thread. Herpers should know from experience not to buy into stereotypes.

AP NEWS: BERRYVILLE , VA APRIL 5 2007
From the World Wide Web Stanly Police were called today to the Clarke County Fairgrounds to investigate an incident involving a Pit Bull Terrier dog and a 9 year old child. According to witnesses, the child was walking near the show rings unsupervised when she suddenly came face to face with the 70 lb Pit Bull Terrier dog. The child threw her arms around the dog's neck, reports say, when the unthinkable happened. The dog began enthusiastically licking the girl's face as his tail wagged briskly.

"It was awful", said one bystander, "there was nothing we could do. That
dog was just giving that child every once of love he had and no one did a
thing to stop it".

Another witness, who took video of the event, said "This happens all the
time, I don't know how it hasn't made the news before now". One
spectator, who declined to be named in this interview, told reporters,
"The sounds were just heartwrenching, all that laughing and giggling. It
made me smile so hard my face hurts. I plan to sue for pain and
suffering". The handler of the dog admits this is not the first time such
an incident has occurred, and that the owners were "well aware of the
stable, loving and patient temperament of this dog". The owners were
unavailable for comment.

Police state that the handler, who was noticeably unrepentant, was cited
for Reckless Entertainment. The dog was given roasted chicken treats and
was not taken into custody.

I think all dogs are to be trusted unless they prove themselves otherwise. I got bitten last month and got 15 stitches from a Husky/German Shepard. Its the second time some one has needed to go to hospital for that dog, I was told if the animal was a pit bull, it would be put down that day. The dog that bit got 10 days quarantine instead. Just a bit discriminative maybe? All the pit bulls i have met are really nice dogs

Entropy LOL :rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Entropy

AP NEWS: BERRYVILLE , VA APRIL 5 2007
From the World Wide Web Stanly Police were called today to the Clarke County Fairgrounds to investigate an incident involving a Pit Bull Terrier dog and a 9 year old child. According to witnesses, the child was walking near the show rings unsupervised when she suddenly came face to face with the 70 lb Pit Bull Terrier dog. The child threw her arms around the dog's neck, reports say, when the unthinkable happened. The dog began enthusiastically licking the girl's face as his tail wagged briskly.

"It was awful", said one bystander, "there was nothing we could do. That
dog was just giving that child every once of love he had and no one did a
thing to stop it".

Another witness, who took video of the event, said "This happens all the
time, I don't know how it hasn't made the news before now". One
spectator, who declined to be named in this interview, told reporters,
"The sounds were just heartwrenching, all that laughing and giggling. It
made me smile so hard my face hurts. I plan to sue for pain and
suffering". The handler of the dog admits this is not the first time such
an incident has occurred, and that the owners were "well aware of the
stable, loving and patient temperament of this dog". The owners were
unavailable for comment.

Police state that the handler, who was noticeably unrepentant, was cited
for Reckless Entertainment. The dog was given roasted chicken treats and
was not taken into custody.

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:rockon:

Is this an Entropy Original?