Feeder Euthanasia the Easy Way, and Humane too...

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Originally Posted by xxTYLERxx

I am delighted to hear that you consider yourself "...... one of the strongest and most vocal supporters for ethical and humane treatment of feeders......" I consider myself not only to be one of the strongest and most vocal supporters for ethical and humane treatment of feeders, I also put my strong and vocal support into action.

With that said, I am curious why you don't use a CO2 canister? Is it the cost or inconvenience? Or is it that you feel that dry ice is as equally humane as a CO2 canister?

Tyer

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I don't believe I mentioned what I use.

We do feed the majority of our snakes live. For the rats older than weaners, they are gassed in a chamber much like the one pictured above with the hose and canister.

Being said, we find it more economical to use a canister of gas. But yes, I do feel the dry ice method is just as humane.

Wow! Thanks so much Brad! This thread is extremely useful!

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Simply put, they do not say it is inhumane to use dry ice, rather, they say it is not acceptable because of the lack of being able to control the CO2.

That is a difference, and I believe if it were viewed as inhumane, they would have clearly written it as so, and I have been trying to point out.

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Okay, so we're getting somewhere LIG.

AVMA says it is not acceptable to use dry ice.....can you state with 100% certainty that it is humane to do so?

Can you control the rate of CO2 with dry ice?

Can you control the rate of CO2 with canister?

Can you control them equally as well?

Is using dry ice equally humane to using CO2 canisters?

I enjoy talking to you.

Tyler:)

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Originally Posted by xxTYLERxx

Okay, so we're getting somewhere LIG.

AVMA says it is not acceptable to use dry ice.....can you state with 100% certainty that it is humane to do so?

Can you control the rate of CO2 with dry ice?

Can you control the rate of CO2 with canister?

Can you control them equally as well?

Is using dry ice equally humane to using CO2 canisters?

I enjoy talking to you.

Tyler:)

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I'm glad you enjoy talking with me, because I certainly feel like a broken record.

If you can't see my reasons for what I believe after I have laid them out very neatly several times, then I can't continue this discussion without re-repeating everything I have already said in response to your same questions.

Just this, where do they explicitly say it is inhumane to use dry ice?

And that is the point.
:twocents:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I'm glad you enjoy talking with me, because I certainly feel like a broken record.

If you can't see my reasons for what I believe after I have laid them out very neatly several times, then I can't continue this discussion without re-repeating everything I have already said in response to your same questions.

Just this, where do they explicitly say it is inhumane to use dry ice?

And that is the point.
:twocents:

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Connie,

That is one of the points....I agree. It says dry ice is unacceptable and how that can be construed as humane escapes me, but I'll move on.

I think I, and possibly others in this forum, would understand everything a little better if you just answered each of those questions one by one. This way everything is clearly understood about the differences between dry ice and canisters.

Have a nice day in Michigan. Sorry to say, I went to grad school at OSU.

Tyler

Connie,

I just visited your website, Metal Monkey Exotics, where you sell ball pythons and read this:


The following is not condoned by the AVMA:

The following methods still involve CO2, and are often the only means by which people are able to humanely euthanize rodents when the appropriate equipment is not available to them.

Dry Ice


Please note that you did underline the word not.

WOW!!! So you are saying that people should use Dry Ice when appropriate equipment is not available to them. You must mean CO2 canisters are appropriate and if it's not available, then what the heck, use dry ice even though it's not appropriate and not condoned by the AVMA.

You are obviously trying to fool others into thinking dry ice is acceptable because it's the only thing cheap enough and available enough for them to use, and that they should use it even though it is inappropriate equipment!!!

This explains everything! Thank you...your website said it all!

Tyler

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Originally Posted by xxTYLERxx

Connie,

I just visited your website, Metal Monkey Exotics, where you sell ball pythons and read this:


The following is not condoned by the AVMA:

The following methods still involve CO2, and are often the only means by which people are able to humanely euthanize rodents when the appropriate equipment is not available to them.

Dry Ice

Please note that you did underline the word not.

WOW!!! So you are saying that people should use Dry Ice when appropriate equipment is not available to them. You must mean CO2 canisters are appropriate and if it's not available, then what the heck, use dry ice even though it's not appropriate and not condoned by the AVMA.

You are obviously trying to fool others into thinking dry ice is acceptable because it's the only thing cheap enough and available enough for them to use, and that they should use it even though it is inappropriate equipment!!!

This explains everything! Thank you...your website said it all!

Tyler

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what happened to moving on?

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Originally Posted by xxTYLERxx

WOW!!! So you are saying that people should use Dry Ice when appropriate equipment is not available to them. You must mean CO2 canisters are appropriate and if it's not available, then what the heck, use dry ice even though it's not appropriate and not condoned by the AVMA.

You are obviously trying to fool others into thinking dry ice is acceptable because it's the only thing cheap enough and available enough for them to use, and that they should use it even though it is inappropriate equipment!!!

This explains everything! Thank you...your website said it all!

Tyler

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Tyler, I am confounded by your inability to process the situation. It's quite amazing to read after going back and forth for so long.

I am glad you visited my website, I am quite proud of it. :)

Now, you feel the need to accuse me of trying to fool people. I don't see how that is possible considering I have put citations from the AVMA guidelines to back up how I interpret the text. Someone trying to fool others certainly wouldn't cite anything now would they?

I feel I have a responsibility to clearly state in my article that the AVMA does not accept the use of CO2 from dry ice when I am instructing others to do so, because the context of the article depends heavily on the AVMA's guidelines. If I were to not put that disclaimer in dry ice section, I would be putting myself and my work in jeopardy for a number of legal reasons.

That is my answer. Plain and simple.

Now, reach up and get your head out of your ass for a moment and realize there are more shades of gray in this situation, and it shouldn't be construed as so black and white like you attempt to badger me with.

I still stand by my statements, that the use of dry ice is quite humane, and no where does the AVMA say otherwise.

Yes Tyler, I feel I have answered all of your questions quite appropriately, and you still have not answered mine.

I again suggest you slow down and read everything I have posted here. I think it is satisfactorily answered your repeated questions, yet you have not attempted to answer mine.

1. Where does the text say it is not humane? Have they listed reasons why?
2. Can you find concrete proof that the dry ice sublimation creates too little CO2 to fall within the guidelines of the AVMA article, or that the use of prefilling a container with CO2 from dry ice is also not within the guidelines?
3. Where in the text have they left any other forms of inhumane euthanasia without the text explicitly saying it is inhumane?

Connie,

On your website it is clearly written that the AVMA does NOT condone dry ice and you stated that dry ice is inappropriate equipment!!!

But according to you.....just ignore the two points above and go ahead, kill the mice with inappropriate equipment, and use that inappropriate equipment that the AVMA does not condone. And don't feel bad about it because it is not specifically written as being inhumane. Is it written that sticking pins and needles in the eyes of the mice is inhumane? NO!!!

Just because a method is not written as being inhumane, doesn't make it humane!!!

Why don't you just tell the readers of your website to use appropriate equipment (CO2 canisters) and use a method considered acceptable by the AVMA? I guess this is just an inconvenient truth.

John

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Originally Posted by xxTYLERxx

Connie,

On your website it is clearly written that the AVMA does NOT condone dry ice and you stated that dry ice is inappropriate equipment!!!

But according to you.....just ignore the two points above and go ahead, kill the mice with inappropriate equipment, and use that inappropriate equipment that the AVMA does not condone. And don't feel bad about it because it is not specifically written as being inhumane. Is it written that sticking pins and needles in the eyes of the mice is inhumane? NO!!!

Just because a method is not written as being inhumane, doesn't make it humane!!!

Why don't you just tell the readers of your website to use appropriate equipment (CO2 canisters) and use a method considered acceptable by the AVMA? I guess this is just an inconvenient truth.

John

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Hi John/Tyler,

I think I also stated why I feel it necessary to point people to the use of dry ice. I reach an international audience, and not everyone has the means to buy canisters of CO2. Also, because other methods I believe are inhumane or have a high margin of error that I can not in good conscience recommend.

I see this is really getting no where with you, I've decided you simply cannot grasp the concepts I am writing and laying out for you.

Good day

And if you ever feel compelled to answer these questions, here they are one more time:

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I again suggest you slow down and read everything I have posted here. I think it is satisfactorily answered your repeated questions, yet you have not attempted to answer mine.

1. Where does the text say it is not humane? Have they listed reasons why?

2. Can you find concrete proof that the dry ice sublimation creates too little CO2 to fall within the guidelines of the AVMA article, or that the use of prefilling a container with CO2 from dry ice is also not within the guidelines?

3. Where in the text have they left any other forms of inhumane euthanasia without the text explicitly saying it is inhumane?

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My biggest problem with this thread is the absolute trust some people seem to put in the AVMA.

They aren't god.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I think I also stated why I feel it necessary to point people to the use of dry ice. I reach an international audience, and not everyone has the means to buy canisters of CO2.

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Sorry about the John/Tyler mixup....sometimes I use my middle name John.

So what you're saying is, if you don't have the means to buy a canister of CO2, go ahead and use inappropriate equipment and use a method not condoned by veterinarians because it is not specifically written as inhumane.

I have a better idea.....if you don't have the means to buy a canister of CO2, don't euthanize mice!!! I know you probably think this is a ridiculous idea.

Tyler

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

My biggest problem with this thread is the absolute trust some people seem to put in the AVMA.

They aren't god.

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Why wouldn't you trust what they say? Do you have reason not to trust them just because they are not God? Don't you think they're the best we've got when it comes to something as important as humane euthanasia? Who would you trust in this matter----a breeder or pet shop owner?

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Originally Posted by xxTYLERxx

Sorry about the John/Tyler mixup....sometimes I use my middle name John.

So what you're saying is, if you don't have the means to buy a canister of CO2, go ahead and use inappropriate equipment and use a method not condoned by veterinarians because it is not specifically written as inhumane.

I have a better idea.....if you don't have the means to buy a canister of CO2, don't euthanize mice!!! I know you probably think this is a ridiculous idea.

Tyler

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Would you give it up already. seriously. either agree to disagree or just stop talking if you cannot.

bottom line is 99% of the people here find this method to be easy and humane. every one is entitled to there opinion. and thats what this is your opinion. its not fact that its inhumane i have yet to see it in writing. and inhumane is identified when some one said INHUMANE. not "not recommended"

now stop posting your same opinion worded differently every other post. Id like to ready comments that have some input on the subject in the origional post. not some ones opinion based on the method.

start a new thread if you wish to argue till your blue in the face and users who wish to partake in it can post in that thread. other wise please.... lay off.

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Originally Posted by xxTYLERxx

Why wouldn't you trust what they say? Do you have reason not to trust them just because they are not God? Don't you think they're the best we've got when it comes to something as important as humane euthanasia? Who would you trust in this matter----a breeder or pet shop owner?

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Frankly Tyler/John, your continued belligerence is testament to your ignorance of the use of dry ice as a means to euthanize.

Labs have been using dry ice for decades, and it is still considered by quite a few boards (as in group of people assembled to discuss laboratory guidelines, much like the AVMA) to be an acceptable alternative to compressed gas.

The AVMA is not law, nor do people that work in these fields consider it as such, however it is well respected, but not the final judgment on what is considered acceptable!

I really suggest before you continue to blubber about; that you do research about euthanasia and exactly why or how dry ice is rated for use as an inhalant.

I suggest for starters you begin with the IACUC handbook.

If you can find some references that do not directly quote the AVMA guidelines, you will quickly learn that using dry ice is still considered humane, and is in continued use in scientific circles around the world.

Connie,

I want you to know that I have been a lurker on this website oftentimes, however I have posted quite infrequently. And most of my posts are on this thread because of my principled beliefs in humane euthanasia.

We have both said, I believe, everything that could possibly be said regarding this subject. We are at an impasse though we both agree on the following:

1. Though not written in the AVMA Guidelines as humane, but written as an acceptable form of euthanasia.....I and many others will continue to use a canister to administer CO2.

2. Though not written in the AVMA Guidelines as inhumane, but written as an unacceptable form of euthanasia.....many others will use dry ice to administer CO2.

I personally would rather use the acceptable form of euthansia over the unacceptable form of euthanasia.

Tyler

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Originally Posted by xxTYLERxx

Connie,

I want you to know that I have been a lurker on this website oftentimes, however I have posted quite infrequently. And most of my posts are on this thread because of my principled beliefs in humane euthanasia.

We have both said, I believe, everything that could possibly be said regarding this subject. We are at an impasse though we both agree on the following:

1. Though not written in the AVMA Guidelines as humane, but written as an acceptable form of euthanasia.....I and many others will continue to use a canister to administer CO2.

2. Though not written in the AVMA Guidelines as inhumane, but written as an unacceptable form of euthanasia.....many others will use dry ice to administer CO2.

I personally would rather use the acceptable form of euthansia over the unacceptable form of euthanasia.

Tyler

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Tyler, while I am not trying to claim I will be able to read every source on the use of dry ice, I will do quite a bit of my own research on it, and have already started.

That being said, I will finish my article exactly as I intend to, and I will list all of my sources, which I have already begun to list as I compile more information about using CO2 from canisters AND dry ice.

When complete (and I really have no time line at this point in time), I urge you to follow the trails I have been down; honestly read and ask yourself if you still believe the methods I encourage are still completely unacceptable or incontrovertibly inhumane.

I do feel you will be surprised. :gj:

Connie,

I will definitely be doing some more research on this matter. I feel of all threads on this forum, this thread is closest to my heart because I believe all animals should be treated in a humane way. And with that said, they should not be made to suffer needlessly just for the sake of convenience and to save a few dollars.

Be well,

Tyler

Connie,

BINGO!!!!

According to page 3 of the AVMA (AMERICAN VETERINARY MEDICAL ASSOCIATION) GUIDELINES ON EUTHANASIA (JUNE 2007), it is clearly written that "unacceptable techniques are those methods deemed inhumane under any conditions....." and this includes dry ice.


......... And unacceptable techniques are those methods deemed inhumane under any conditions or that the panel found posed a substantial risk to the human applying the technique.


You have stated repeatedly that dry ice is considered unacceptable with no mention of it being inhumane, therefore, you assumed (deduced) dry ice is a humane method of euthanasia.

I did more research and found that dry ice is inhumane and my hope is that everyone here that uses dry ice to stop doing so because the AVMA clearly states that it is an inhumane method of euthanasia.

I would like to see you let others here and on your website know that they should no longer use dry ice because it is considered inhumane by the AVMA.

Tyler

Yet again, I don't see where this implys that dry ice is inhumane. Perhaps it could pose a risk to the human...

What you've written is not saying that unacceptable techniques are automatically inhumane, but that inhumane techniques are not acceptable.

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Originally Posted by xxTylerxx

unacceptable techniques are those methods deemed inhumane under any conditions

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...those methods DEEMED inhumane. When was the use of dry ice deemed inhumane exactly? :rolleyes:

Again, I don't see where there is such a definitive line like you continue to berate us with.

And no, I will present everything on my website like I intend to. Until you can answer these questions, I still stand by what I have said.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I again suggest you slow down and read everything I have posted here. I think it is satisfactorily answered your repeated questions, yet you have not attempted to answer mine.

1. Where does the text say it is not humane? Have they listed reasons why?

2. Can you find concrete proof that the dry ice sublimation creates too little CO2 to fall within the guidelines of the AVMA article, or that the use of prefilling a container with CO2 from dry ice is also not within the guidelines?

3. Where in the text have they left any other forms of inhumane euthanasia without the text explicitly saying it is inhumane?

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Connie,

According to you and the AVMA, dry ice is an unacceptable method of euthanasia.

According to the AVMA, unacceptable methods are deemed inhumane under any conditions.

Therefore, since dry ice is an unacceptable method, it is deemed inhumane under any conditions!!!!!!

What don't you understand??? This is like third grade math logic.

Tyler

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Originally Posted by xxTYLERxx

Connie,

According to you and the AVMA, dry ice is an unacceptable method of euthanasia.

According to the AVMA, unacceptable methods are deemed inhumane under any conditions.

Therefore, since dry ice is an unacceptable method, it is deemed inhumane under any conditions!!!!!!

What don't you understand??? This is like third grade math logic.

Tyler

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I would like to see a link or a document.

This comment I also find very rude and insulting. I don't appreciate you insulting Connie, and if you continue to do so, many people will not be very fond of you in the snake trade.

You are making quite a bit of claims, yet your not explaining any of them. By scientific reasoning, the slow process of dry ice is exactly like CO2 gassing, and if done correctly, puts them to sleep just like any euthanasia drug does before the animal passes away. However, this means that it the dry ice should be placed in after and with out any water to create a slower gas process and not burn the lungs and trachea.

So please, explain to me, in your words why dry ice is inhumane?

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Originally Posted by xxTYLERxx

What don't you understand??? This is like third grade math logic.

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Where in the entirety of the text have they explicitly deemed it inhumane?

Are we reading the same text? How have you decided that they have deemed it so from the below text????

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...And unacceptable techniques are those methods deemed inhumane

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Again, where have they "DEEMED" dry ice as inhumane? It does NOT say, "unacceptable techniques are deemed inhumane". No matter what you read, it does not say that. That word "those" and "methods" changes the entire meaning of the text.

This is getting quite out of hand, because it does not seem like you understand sentence structure. Forget third grade math, sounds more like third grade english lessons.

Hi,

Having to read this is starting to get on my few remaining nerves.

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Originally Posted by xxTYLERxx

According to page 3 of the AVMA (AMERICAN VETERINARY MEDICAL ASSOCIATION) GUIDELINES ON EUTHANASIA (JUNE 2007), it is clearly written that "unacceptable techniques are those methods deemed inhumane under any conditions....." and this includes dry ice.


......... And unacceptable techniques are those methods deemed inhumane under any conditions or that the panel found posed a substantial risk to the human applying the technique.

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Can you please provide a link to the unedited and unabridged version of this text so that I can look at the context and phraseology?

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Originally Posted by xxTYLERxx

What don't you understand??? This is like third grade math logic.

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And I believe that's quite enough of that if you don't mind - if you continue in that manner you would be liable for bear baiting or other infractions if not outright trolling.

Keep it polite or let it go.


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

Having to read this is starting to get on my few remaining nerves.



Can you please provide a link to the unedited and unabridged version of this text so that I can look at the context and phraseology?



And I believe that's quite enough of that if you don't mind - if you continue in that manner you would be liable for bear baiting or other infractions if not outright trolling.

Keep it polite or let it go.


dr del

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Derek,

I am sorry...I will keep it polite. Please accept my apologies.

I greatly appreciate your taking the time to read this. Thank you very much.

Here is the link which you requested:

http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_we...euthanasia.pdf

It just seems everyone is ignoring what the AVMA has written on humane euthanasia because it is inconvenient for some individuals to use a humane technique in euthanizing mice, and that would be by CO2 canister.

They would rather use something more convenient and considered unacceptable and inhumane by the AVMA....and that would be dry ice.

I am so adamant about this because I hate to see the mice suffer needlessly.

Thanks once again for your time.

Tyler

So how long does it take dry ice to kill a feeder compared to co2 canister?

Just to throw another .02 into the discussion. I've read the AVMA doc and the arguments here from both sides. The reality that I see is that with either method, dry ice or co2 canister, unless performed in a controlled environment (read laboratory) where gas levels can be accurately monitored, neither method is acceptable to the AVAM. As stated in page 6, the criteria point 3 & 11 is looking to reliability and maintainability of the method of euthanasia. Both methods are “hit and miss” when it comes to CO2 concentrations as even with a CO2 canister with a reliable and accurate regulator you have no way to determine CO2 flow rate other than by look, feel, sound and your gut instinct. (Since the air in the container is not visible and the CO2 in the tank is not visible). Quite frankly I would say the CO2 canister method has the greatest chance of causing pain/harm to the animals being euthanized because of the possibility of very high rate of gas flow (Read your sight/ears/gut are not the best scientific instruments for measuring invisible gasses).
All that said, I would have to commend both sides of this argument for their personal desires to be the most humane pet owners they can be. I know I don’t like the idea of an animal having to die so that another can live, but that is the way of life. (I say this as I ponder getting a hamburger or a beef Burrito for lunch :D)

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Originally Posted by gandalfdagrey

Just to throw another .02 into the discussion. I've read the AVMA doc and the arguments here from both sides. The reality that I see is that with either method, dry ice or co2 canister, unless performed in a controlled environment (read laboratory) where gas levels can be accurately monitored, neither method is acceptable to the AVAM. As stated in page 6, the criteria point 3 & 11 is looking to reliability and maintainability of the method of euthanasia. Both methods are “hit and miss” when it comes to CO2 concentrations as even with a CO2 canister with a reliable and accurate regulator you have no way to determine CO2 flow rate other than by look, feel, sound and your gut instinct. (Since the air in the container is not visible and the CO2 in the tank is not visible). Quite frankly I would say the CO2 canister method has the greatest chance of causing pain/harm to the animals being euthanized because of the possibility of very high rate of gas flow (Read your sight/ears/gut are not the best scientific instruments for measuring invisible gasses).
All that said, I would have to commend both sides of this argument for their personal desires to be the most humane pet owners they can be. I know I don’t like the idea of an animal having to die so that another can live, but that is the way of life. (I say this as I ponder getting a hamburger or a beef Burrito for lunch :D)

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flow rate is probally one of the most invalid arguements period! first of all you can calculate how many ppm you are working with how fast or slow it gets there doesnt matter. actually the faster is typically better since they wouldnt have the effects of the gas until its overcome them. the only reason why gassing them period works is because its concentrated and they have been exposed to ppm that is fatal.

The rate of gas flow is actually a highly debated subject. The AVMA does not completely let on to that, but there are many others (like the IACUC) that argue going too slow or too fast is detrimental in some way or another. I don't think there will ever be any consensus where either side is completely happy.

I’m not taking sides in this as the reality is all methods lead to the same result... A dead mouse/rat. When I buy F/T mice and rats my only concern is that they were raised with the proper nutrition and weren’t killed with something that will harm my snake… And that they were killed on purpose (Have you seen a F/T feeder that you asked yourself if this animal was found dead and frozen so that they could make a buck?...)
I have to wonder what would make people happy in this argument. If you gave up on the idea of “humanely” euthanizing your animals and went for live feeding, somehow I don’t see the mouse being better off… I suppose somewhere out there is a scientist out there making Tofu Rats :P

I wonder what the AVMA says about this one:
http://www.kentscientific.com/produc...ProductId=6205

Small Animal Guillotine

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Kent Scientific’s Small Animal Guillotine is ideal for dispensing of both rat and mouse subjects. It has hardened and ground surgical stainless steel blades, aluminum base and stainless steel hardware. With its 1½ in. square maximum blade opening, it is suitable for decapitating rats, mice and other small animals. The decapitator cuts cleanly and quickly through bone and tissue. The base has four holes for bench mounting.

The guillotine is considered one of the most humane methods to dispense with a subject.

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http://www.kentscientific.com/images...ts/SU_DCAP.jpg

How much dry ice would I need for a 4lb rabbit?
And how long should I leave it in there.

Also what about newborn rabbit kits?
~Hayley

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Originally Posted by chrisdab

I wonder what the AVMA says about this one:
http://www.kentscientific.com/produc...ProductId=6205

Small Animal Guillotine



http://www.kentscientific.com/images...ts/SU_DCAP.jpg

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LOL!!!!So I've read this whole entire thread...and I was just laughing...and I laughed even more with what chrisdab posted...

oh that was a good laugh thanks!

That is an awsome way to euthanize!!! Im gona do the same thing!!! Thank you so much!

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Originally Posted by chrisdab

I wonder what the AVMA says about this one:
http://www.kentscientific.com/produc...ProductId=6205

Small Animal Guillotine



http://www.kentscientific.com/images...ts/SU_DCAP.jpg

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That is a very common method of dispatching lab rats, many universities use guillotines.

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Originally Posted by chrisdab

I wonder what the AVMA says about this one:
http://www.kentscientific.com/produc...ProductId=6205

Small Animal Guillotine



http://www.kentscientific.com/images...ts/SU_DCAP.jpg

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Teehee! A little bloody though...:weirdface

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Originally Posted by chrisdab

I wonder what the AVMA says about this one:
http://www.kentscientific.com/produc...ProductId=6205

Small Animal Guillotine



http://www.kentscientific.com/images...ts/SU_DCAP.jpg

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wow... i dont think i could handle that...

This is absolutely FANTASTIC! I have my rat/mice colonies that I am working on starting, and was trying to come up with a good, humane way to euthanize them when the time came. Try as I might, I could not come up with anything good. So when I stumbled across this, you can just imagine how totally happy I was. :D Thank you SO much, Elevatethis. It helps to take a huge weight off my mind.

Can anyone tell me if the mice/rats lose their body temperature after this is done...because I wanna feed 'em as soon as the process is over...

can you keep dry ice in a regular freezer?

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Originally Posted by tiexecutioner

can you keep dry ice in a regular freezer?

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I read in an reply several pages back that the standard freezers cannot keep the dry ice at a suitable temperature for preservation. No idea how much longer it'll last in a freezer v. room temp, but nothing significant.

We did this with a batch of mice and it worked great! Thanks for the wonderful tute with great pictures!!

i was reading this thread cuz i initially thought "ok i could do this dry ice method to pre-kill 1 rat every week for my snake (when i have her home) so that i can sleep easy knowing i'm providing her safe meals.
then...
i got to the part of the thread that got into storing dry ice and saw that it cant be stored in a regular refridgerator freezer so i thought "ok that sucks so it it sounds like i'll have to buy dry ice every week to euthanize the 1 rat for that week's feeding."
then...
i got to the part of the tread where it said that the dry ice method has been declared IN humane...
dammit! there goes my pre-killing a rat every week idea.
buying pre-killed online or from stores is not an option because my boyfriend WILL NOT allow rat bodies to be kept in our freezer with our food...fine...i dont like that idea either. i can buy live and i can feed live but my concern is what if the rat decides to fight back and gets a good bite on the snake...then i've got an injured snake on my hands...
hmmmm
buying frozen = not an option
pre-killing = no way to do it humanely now
feeding live = risking the snake getting injured by a rat fighting back
[throws hands up in the air]
now what?

Get a small standing freezer on craigslist. After time passes, my wife has become more accepting of it. She doesn't even mind the defrosting mice/rats in the fridge. It's not like it stinks up all the other food.

so buy a seperate freezer for the rats...hmm i think i can do that...dont see how my boyfriend could oppose that one.

so after talking to my boyfriend about all the methods of feeding the snake he finally said "man up and just feed it live."
[shrugs] which i guess i could if i watch over the feedings carefully to prevent the rat from biting the snake...which i was originally planning on doing anyways.

ok...all things considered, last night i went back to the idea of investing in a seperate freezer and buying pre-killed/frozen from rodentpro or something like it. hmmm...
but my bf says i'd be a hypocrite by doing that...dont follow his logic but whatever, the point is it'll be MY snake so I think i'm entitled to decide how I will feed it...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mommanessy247

ok...all things considered, last night i went back to the idea of investing in a seperate freezer and buying pre-killed/frozen from rodentpro or something like it. hmmm...
but my bf says i'd be a hypocrite by doing that...dont follow his logic but whatever, the point is it'll be MY snake so I think i'm entitled to decide how I will feed it...

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If you are going to pre kill only one mouse for your snake, i would suggest to use vinegar and soda mix as link below
http://www.alysion.org/euthanasia/
I've been using this method so far no ill effect for my corn and ball, that's no way for me to get dry ice here. Hope it helps,thanks

ive gone back to feeding live thing...it'll take me too long to save up for the freezer and ordering of the rats...i can just closely supervise the feedings...no biggie.

The thought that your snake can't handle what millions of snakes do in nature every day (aka killing their own prey) is pretty absurd.
Just stay with your snake for a few minutes while it kills the rat and make sure the rat doesn't fight back.
Problem solved.

Seriously...