Questions for the General Public

Ok folks, its been an absolute pleasure listening to everyones arguments and opinions and I thank everyone for keeping things civil. But I think it's time to put this one out to pasture. :colbert2:

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Originally Posted by iceman25

Ok folks, its been an absolute pleasure listening to everyones arguments and opinions and I thank everyone for keeping things civil. But I think it's time to put this one out to pasture. :colbert2:

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I think it's still proceeding amicably. Why lock it now?

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Originally Posted by xdeus

I think it's still proceeding amicably. Why lock it now?

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Personally, I think that we're all being fairly mature about the entire topic. I haven't called anyone names, nor has anyone else. I'd like to see this continue. Please?

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Originally Posted by Melicious

I also encourage you to look at alternatives outside of class. I will not mention these alternatives. That’s for your own curiosity to find. I will, however; state that as of this point, if you have any personal concerns, please come speak to my after class.

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That doesn't sound too bad, however... if my child came to you after class to ask about alternatives and you mentioned Creationism, ID, etc. I would be at that school first thing the next morning to complain.

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Originally Posted by xdeus

That doesn't sound too bad, however... if my child came to you after class to ask about alternatives and you mentioned Creationism, ID, etc. I would be at that school first thing the next morning to complain.

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I'd simple state this to your child: Billy, I'm not at liberty to suggest any of these alternative beliefs, but I'm sure if you look online, whether you google, or look through some science magazines and newspapers, you'll find them. I'd also suggest talking to your parents about what they think. Otherwise, just explore. The internets full of lots of information, and I'm sure your mother and father can point you in the right direction. A lot of college campuses provide subscriptions to databases such as LexusNexus, Infotrac, and other great databases for searching. In fact, one of my favorite authors uses LexusNexus. Anyways, it's getting late. I think you ought to head to your next class. It was nice speaking with you, Billy.

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Originally Posted by Melicious

I'd simple state this to your child: Billy, I'm not at liberty to suggest any of these alternative beliefs...

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I'm sure that would be acceptable to most people, but it seems quite a bit different than what you may have intended when you started this thread.

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Originally Posted by Melicious

• I guess I haven’t been making myself clear. I will teach evolution. That’s what the curriculum will more-than-likely allow me to do. However, I would encourage them to take a look at these other ideas/beliefs/ “THEORIES.”
  
  • The Flatulent Raccoon Theory: Please read Godless By: Anne Coulter
  • Creationism.
  • Intelligent Design.
  • Egyptian Creationist Story

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The problem with these is that they are not scientific theories...all of them are simply {the same rehereased and throughly rejected} criticisms of Darwinism or total misrepresentations of data.

Last time I checked Ann Coulter wasnt a scientist, biologist, etc......How many papers in peer-reviewed scientific jounarls does she have? (How many do I have you ask? One..)

Do any of them provide a naturalistic explanation based on evidence and data of how current species cam to be? NO

Give a handout of these is just going to make you kids think hey she's not comfortable with this material...why should I bother learning it well?

I am an agnostic that lately is turning more athetistic......Should I introduce students to my view of religion and dogmatic faith which is very similiar to Sam Harris' view expressed in the book "The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason"

First of all, I'd be commiting career sucide.....second of all, this is more of a topic tackled at the college level.

I dont see the difference too between my exposing students to these ideas and yours......in both cases the teacher is encouraging students to look at things that are not part of the science standards and not part of scientific disciplines.....

You say you want to have your students experience new things......dont try to take on too much.....your kids will experience life and a variety of world viewpoints in college, work, and life.

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Originally Posted by xdeus

I think it's still proceeding amicably.

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I hope ur right. I'm just "feeling" a lot of tension coming off of the whole thing given the nature of the discussion. If things get too heated and confrontational, she is a goner!

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Originally Posted by xdeus

I'm sure that would be acceptable to most people, but it seems quite a bit different than what you may have intended when you started this thread.

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Really? I was thinking the same thing throughout this entire discussion.

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

The problem with these is that they are not scientific theories...all of them are simply {the same rehereased and throughly rejected} criticisms of Darwinism or total misrepresentations of data.

Last time I checked Ann Coulter wasnt a scientist, biologist, etc......How many papers in peer-reviewed scientific jounarls does she have? (How many do I have you ask? One..)

Do any of them provide a naturalistic explanation based on evidence and data of how current species cam to be? NO

Give a handout of these is just going to make you kids think hey she's not comfortable with this material...why should I bother learning it well?

I am an agnostic that lately is turning more athetistic......Should I introdcue students to my view of religion which is very similiar to Sam Harris' view expressed in the book "The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason"

First of all, I'd be commiting career sucide.....second of all, this is more of a topic tackled at the college level.

I dont see the difference too between my exposing students to these ideas and yours......in both cases the teacher is encouraging students to look at things that are not part of the science standards and not part of scientific disciplines.....

You say you want to have your students experience new things......dont try to take on too much.....your kids will experience life and a variety of world viewpoints in college, work, and life.

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Mendel: I was using Coulter and these other examples as alternatives to the theory of evolution. I'm not mentioning, I'm not even making it easy for them to find them. I realize they're not accepted by the scientific society. That wasn't my point. They're alternatives. End of story.

And by the way, Ann Coulter is a very respected woman in my eyes. Not because she's Christian, she's conservative, or anything like that. She's respected in my eyes because she doesn't take anyone's crap.

I, however; openly encourage you to read her book. ^_^

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Originally Posted by Melicious

Really? I was thinking the same thing throughout this entire discussion.

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I don't think so. You initially stated that you wanted to encourage your students to learn about the alternatives to evolution (extra credit, straying from approved textbooks). The way you stated it in these last couple of messages was more like mentioning that alternatives exist rather than encouraging them to learn about them.

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Originally Posted by xdeus

I don't think so. You initially stated that you wanted to encourage your students to learn about the alternatives to evolution (extra credit, straying from approved textbooks). The way you stated it in these last couple of messages was more like mentioning that alternatives exist rather than encouraging them to learn about them.

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I want them to learn about them. I just can't teach them. I want them to know that they exist, but it's their choice as to whether or not they want to explore the matter further.

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Originally Posted by Melicious

She's respected in my eyes because she doesn't take anyone's crap.

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Interesting criteria for respect. Does Mike Tyson make that cut as well? :P

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Originally Posted by xdeus

Interesting criteria for respect. Does Mike Tyson make that cut as well? :P

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No. I'm not fond of people who bite people. In the fact that she doesn't take anyone's crap, I mean that she calls people out on their mistakes. Godless was probably her best book ever. I've read her previous books, but they don't have quite the "bite" that this one does.

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Originally Posted by Melicious

I want them to learn about them. I just can't teach them. I want them to know that they exist, but it's their choice as to whether or not they want to explore the matter further.

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I dont see your point.

IF they want to learn about them they can do it in their free time.....last time I checked most teenagres are pretty good at finding different ideas/viewpoints through google and wikipedioa

This is like saying I want them to be active and participate in sports as a science teacher, but I cant teach them physical ed.

IF you wanted to do that be a gym teacher or coach.

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Originally Posted by Melicious

Mendel: I was using Coulter and these other examples as alternatives to the theory of evolution. I'm not mentioning, I'm not even making it easy for them to find them. I realize they're not accepted by the scientific society. That wasn't my point. They're alternatives. End of story.

And by the way, Ann Coulter is a very respected woman in my eyes. Not because she's Christian, she's conservative, or anything like that. She's respected in my eyes because she doesn't take anyone's crap.

I, however; openly encourage you to read her book. ^_^

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Would you read a book on herps with someone with no experience in herpetological cultivation? NO

WHy then would I waste my time reading what Coulter has to say about evolution?

I wonder how many science classes COulter has taken?

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Originally Posted by Melicious

No. I'm not fond of people who bite people.

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Darn...guess that rules me out.

WOW ... I like fried chicken! :sweeet:

-adam

I agree with Mendel 100%.
At the beginning of the thread it seemed more of you wanting to state your beliefs and put those out for the students.
Now its seems as though you're going to say "We start Evolution tomorrow. Oh, by the way, there are more theories out there."
wtc? that's whats in the beginning of every single alabama science book that offers evolution.
What you said previously sounded to encorporate these alternative theories, now it seems like it will be a foot note on day one, the end.

WHERE does Ann Coulter come into all of this? as far as i know, she's a conservative right wing political writer. Not a scientist. (OT: personally, i cannot stand the woman because she takes crap from no one. she thinks she's right and is just refuses to accept maybe, just maybe she could be wrong. that is the WORST way to approach politics imho. The ONLY time i have ever agreed with her was when she said that just because someone lost someone in the 9/11 incidents didnt mean they had the right to get on tv and try to bandwagon everyone into a war with their grief. Somehow that was twisted into her bashing 9/11 widows. Go figure.)

Guys this thread isn't progressing anymore, it's just arguing the same stuff, with little to no end in sight. Everyone's said their point of view, but it seems we have a stand off.

Who's up for Popeyes?

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

Who's up for Popeyes?

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Fo Shizzle my favit mod-izzle! :rofl:

(sorry, just got side tracked looking up what an "Obie Trice" was ... WOW!)

-adam

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Darn...guess that rules me out.

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I like that kind of biting. ^_^

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Originally Posted by Melicious

I like that kind of biting. ^_^

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So does Little Brad! :sweeet:

-adam

I have no respect for Coulter. She may not take crap, but she sure dishes it out .
Her grasp of science is almost as good as her grasp on reality.