Live prey vs......

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

shhhhh .... don't spook 'em! :P

-adam

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ha ha.... spook'em....almost sounds like you would be watching to wild animals fight it out :)

HA HA....yep this thread is gone :D

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

ha ha.... spook'em....almost sounds like you would be watching to wild animals fight it out :)

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one can only dream!!! :D:D:D

-adam

I'm staying outta this thread LOL other than to state for the record that grade 7 perms are something no female ever wants to see ever again (other than with a stiff drink in hand or perhaps a nerve pill or two to help get through the trauma).

Have a great holiday you two and if you change your mind about my own 4 (now grown to 5 as the oldest has invited a friend for a visit *pls not the whole summer!*) coming to visit you just holler and I'll ship em out even if I have to hijack the FedEx guy LOL.


~~Jo~~

Hey Joanna, the kids are pretty well behaved so if you don't mind free ranging children send em on down. We'll throw food out there everyday or so. We might even try and round them up and send em home when we leave, but only if you want ;)

And you guys....Sorry no cat fight....yet. We spend too much time lotioning each other up and romping on the beach together :devilish: And don't get me started on the hot tub :D ;) Don't worry we don't spook easy. :P

Oh dear lord...:rolleyes:

At this rate this thread will never die!!! :lmao:

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

And you guys....Sorry no cat fight....yet. We spend too much time lotioning each other up and romping on the beach together :devilish: And don't get me started on the hot tub :D ;) Don't worry we don't spook easy. :P

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****THUMP*** <<- the sound of Adam falling out of his chair with a big "smile" :neener:

-adam

its the thread that never ends....
;)

Hmmm. Where's the "all of the above" option?

;)

K~

Saw a lot of people saying that they fed live. ::Not trying to pick a fight::...but everyone should read this http://redtailboa.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15585 I got it off of www.RedTailBoa.net Feeding live can be very bad for your snakes... I have found that almost any snakewill eat f/t or p/k with enough patience.

Hi, just a curiosity, i have start feeding my Ball with hamsters at 4 months ago as its more easy to find in the pet shops around me than mice or rats, prviosly i have breed the mice my self but she is to big now to be fed with mice (she born in 2003) i also have my hamster colonie at home just to fed her.
My question is:
Any time i put a female hamster in the tank she folow it, some times she strikes, more a as a warning to the hamster but not kill,onces she have kill it in the water ball and left it there floating, with a male hamster she goes staright for it nad eats it. She have also eat females, but i think she preferes males...is this normal?

Rats aren't that hard to find. I wouldn't feed her hamsters full time. I would also switch her to f/t or p/k.

Well in Portugal Rats are dificult to find in pet shops, but why you sugest to not feed hamsters all time? Are they not nutricious? I´m working on start with f/t as she use to with mice, but after refusing a few p/k hamster i offer live just to get her use to hamsters.
I do prefere F/t not only for teh risc of injury the snake but also becouse freeze kills almost all internal paraites and bacteria from the prey.
Thanks.

I was told they are too nutritious (I am not saying this is true...just what I was told). I have also been told once you start them on hamsters they are hard to switch back because hamsters taste better. You can get mice, rats, rabbits and chicks all frozen off www.RodentPro.com The s/h is sort of expensive, and I personally have never made an order. My petstore has frozen all the way up to mice. When my Ball Python gets bigger I am going to get a Co2 system to kill the rats. Then freeze the ones I don't use. BTW, I don't know how your pre-killing, but the best way is to put a mouse/rat in an old pillow case and hit them on a HARD surface (maybe a cement driveway or something), REALLY HARD, so that one whack does them in.

Oh, and if you decide to use RodentPro.com, if you have other friends, or know other people with snakes, it is best to order in bulk. That way its a little cheaper.

i would say if you are gonna kill your on mice then freeze them why not put them in a ziplockbaggieand put the ziplock baggy in a lil tub and put that in your freezer so the mouse just dies on its own and you dotn have to get it all bloody and what not.and any snake can be switched to any rodent just patience and remember never stop trying let the snake go a day or two over the normal feeding tiem and then give it the f/t or p/k these are some things that have worked for me but i could never get my bps to eat frozen thawed but my last one had a love for pre killed. he would just fidn it and eat it liek a good little boa lol

Thanks,
Wendell

I have no problem to kill the hamsters or mice, i just didn´t yet becouse i´ve just start with hamsters at not long ago, but i defently want her to go for f/t its a lot less work and save room with less cages for the hamsters. I notice since she eating hamsters she eat only every second or thirt week becouse they are biger than mice. But my question still the same, why she prefere male hamsters than females? but she loocks better since the hamsters (she always loock good but now seems geting bigger tens before, she born in 2003 and last November she was 1050grms. In Portugal any boid its not legal to own, thats why the mice and rat market is not devloped.

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Originally Posted by Simplest_Mistake

Feeding live can be very bad for your snakes...

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Feeding live is ONLY bad for your snakes if you are a BAD keeper and do not feed live correctly. ANY method of feeding can be BAD if done improperly. Do what you feel is correct AND do it properly....live, p/k, or f/t....they are all safe if done properly, so make sure you are feeding correctly :)

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Originally Posted by doobysnack

why not put them in a ziplockbaggieand put the ziplock baggy in a lil tub and put that in your freezer so the mouse just dies on its own

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That is not a good way to kill mice. I have heard stories of mice taking over 24 hours to die that way. ANY method of killing that can take 24 hours is cruel.

The two best methods of killing rodents are using a carbon dioxide chamber or breaking the neck of the animal. Personally, I break the neck of the mice by placing a pencil behind their neck and giving their tail a jerk. I would suggest seeing someone else do this properly before attempting because if done wrong the animal will suffer.

Since I raise my own mice, I have found that the best method is to attempt a feeding with a freshly killed mouse then if for some reason the snake does not eat I freeze the dead mouse for a later feeding. This way I can get two feedings out of every mouse if necessary. I value my animal's lives and would not want to risk an animal that I raised being thrown out(and basically killed for no reason) because it was defrosted and not eaten....I like having two opportunities to feed each rodent.

I also kill the roedents the same way (broken the spine) i think its fast and not so cruel as freeze alive. But i also think that if you feed live like i do at the moment its always a risk even if u are the best keeper, a rat can harm your snake before u have time to do anything, its more a trust on your snake skill, my have always ignore live mice, but refuse the first 2 dead hamsters, thats why at the moment i feed live, i will change to F/t or p/k soon.
Its my snake the only one that prefere male prey tham female?

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Originally Posted by age

Its my snake the only one that prefere male prey tham female?

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ha ha... I have never seen another snake be 'sexist' :D

Male rodents generally have a stronger smell than females. Maybe that is the reason that your bp only seems to be interested in males. ...that is only a educated guess...I have never heard that one before :)

huh well i will just kill them and then freeze them i could swear that the freezer than would have worked.good thing i never tried it lol

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Originally Posted by doobysnack

huh well i will just kill them and then freeze them i could swear that the freezer than would have worked.good thing i never tried it lol

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good thing :) when i first started breeding mice, I thought about freezing them. Then I read an article about the problems associated with each method (i am trying to find that article again...). The CO2 method is the best way. The 'pencil method' of breaking the neck only has the drawback that if done improperly the animal will suffer. Other than that is pretty easy to do, works very fast, and is generally not messy at all.

yeah well about 19 of my ratrs spoiled last week so i had to feed reeses 2 p/k mice for the second time. I am sad to say that i wacked both the mice and put them in there with reeses but i noticed one was twithcing. I figured reeses would get that one first so no biggie but he got the one that wasnt moving first(wuss) so it was pretty sad watching him twitch for those 15 minutes. so if it comes to where i have to kill a rodent again then i will try that pencil method. as for which method i prefer.......i'd have to say f/t just because i really dont like killing rodents and i am too paranoid to feed live. but shipping on those frozen rats costs an arm lol.

Brian

I know! I have yet to kill a rodent, and would preferably not ever have to (wistful thinking huh)...my guys can eat mice, and my petstore has f/t mice. But as soon as my BP reaches adult size...::squeak!:: I am going to have to start wacking. I think I am going to buy one of those Co2 Killing systems. ONE QUESTION about those, the Co2 doesn't hurt the snake? Or are you supposed to freeze/thaw the rats before you feed them??

The snake likes male prey over female....wow that is interesting. Test the theory maybe and rub one of your female's over a male (especially the back end area) to scent the female with the male scent and see what the snake does. Just might be an interesting experiment.

You said you live in Portugal where your ball is actually illegal so obviously you can't order from RodentPro here in the States and mice and rats aren't easily gotten hold of. I'd like to hear from really experienced breeders on this. Is long term feeding of any type of rodent like a hamster or gerbil really going to impact a snake's wellbeing? What would be the real difference in offering hamster/gerbils versus mice/rats over the lifetime of a snake?


~~Joanna~~

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

The snake likes male prey over female....

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I'm not buying that one.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

What would be the real difference in offering hamster/gerbils versus mice/rats over the lifetime of a snake?

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Nothing ... I know of plenty of ball pythons being raised on gerbils or being fed hamsters regularly.

-adam

LOL I wasn't saying I'm buying it either Adam, just that it seems interesting.

Thanks for the clarification about prey. I couldn't figure how it would really hurt a snake to have a prey other than rats/mice and I've seen threads where Kara from NERD was feeding guinea pigs to one of her bigger snakes so I kinda figured if that's the food this guy can get and his snake is doing good on it, what's the problem? Being a newbie though I figured it was best answered by others definitively.

~~Jo~~

I'm sorry, but I accidentally clicked pre-killed, but i reall meant frozen/thawed. I haven't had problems with live mice, but the F/T mice are incredibly cheaper. It saves me about $220 every 16 months or so!:D

I feed prekilled, because I breed my own rats and it is just easier. When I have a surplus, I kill them and toss them in the freezer when they are at the appropriate size. I do have 2 BPs that completely ignore f/t, so I work my rat-breedings so that I always have some that are the right size!

'Bo eats live. The guy I got him from about 3 yrs. ago fed him both. 'Bo wpuld eat the frz/thawed but, he had trouble figguring which end was which.:rolleyes: I've always fed live and he hasn't had any trouble figuring which was the right end.:thumbsup:

I also feed live.

just recently last week i switched rocky from live adult mive to frozen/thawed medium rats its all going well. it didnt take rocky as long as it did the fist time to find the rat he actualy found the rat quicker. working great for me

we feed pretty much all of it. I do try, and normaly am, able to get everyone on a frozen thawed diet. I find it easier on us, and less of a hassle.
But I have a few come through that have to have live, or just pre killed.
Rusty

Can't we get back to chocolate pie & flirting!!??

Honestly, I am just so impressed that we had a 14 page thread on live vs. dead prey & not one warning or deleted post! Amazing! Are we all growin up or is it that Adam was just distracted by the heavy flirtations!? LMAO!

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Originally Posted by Eddie_Z

Can't we get back to chocolate pie & flirting!!??

Honestly, I am just so impressed that we had a 14 page thread on live vs. dead prey & not one warning or deleted post! Amazing! Are we all growin up or is it that Adam was just distracted by the heavy flirtations!? LMAO!

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I have to be good these days or WHAM!! ;) Definitely ain't like it used to be. :(

-adam

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I have to be good these days or WHAM!! ;) Definitely ain't like it used to be. :(

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That's not a George Michael reference is it? ;) jk

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Originally Posted by Smulkin

That's not a George Michael reference is it? ;) jk

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Great, now threaten me with having to listen to "Ya gotta have Faith" if I'm bad ... talk about cruel and unusual!! :P

After the threat of Britney Spears I swore I'd be good!! ... Enough with the bad music torture already!! :twisted:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Great, now threaten me with having to listen to "Ya gotta have Faith" if I'm bad ... talk about cruel and unusual!! :P

After the threat of Britney Spears I swore I'd be good!! ... Enough with the bad music torture already!! :twisted:

-adam

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HAHA! I agree - I can think of scads of more desireable forms of torture lol.

Hey bro trust me - with three boys and two of them now in high school i have had WAAAAY MORE han my fair share of exposure to cheesy music. Fortunately as we've raised them and weaned them from the nsyncs and ricky martins ans brittny spearses (nocaps :P) and towards actual music things are much better. Taking them to a few OzzFests certainly helped too. Black Sabbath > Brittany.

OK topic_derail /OFF

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Originally Posted by Smulkin

HAHA! I agree - I can think of scads of more desireable forms of torture lol.

Hey bro trust me - with three boys and two of them now in high school i have had WAAAAY MORE han my fair share of exposure to cheesy music. Fortunately as we've raised them and weaned them from the nsyncs and ricky martins ans brittny spearses (nocaps :P) and towards actual music things are much better. Taking them to a few OzzFests certainly helped too. Black Sabbath > Brittany.

OK topic_derail /OFF

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I can't complain, my 4 year old is addicted to the Ramones (knows more lyrics than me). I can't ask for better! ... It just $ucks that I'll never be able to take him up to CBGB to see Joey and the crew for a Sunday afternoon all ages show! :(

-adam

i feed live. dead rodents just freak me out. the worst thing that happened with me feeding live is the mouse peeing and crapping on my snake :(

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Looks like you're the man boss! LOL

http://www.8ballpythons.com/images/lesser-breeding.jpg

-adam

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:O That is amazing.
The largest female I saw was actually today, at 5200 grams.
She must take down atleast three small rats a sitting.


Anyways, I'm actually attempting to follow down the same feeding path as Adam -
Im sticking to feeding small rats, I'll offer them as many as they can take down a sitting.
Im tired of Morgan going off feed from large rats. :no:

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Originally Posted by VFT

lmao nice thats what im talking about lol
Ok I am still laughing at the male lol little guy you go

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v444/VFT/cuz.jpg

so what is the lenght/weight on that one?

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My only question is, How do you get BP to drink Lipton Iced Tea https://ball-pythons.net/forums/images/icons/icon12.gifhttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Hers how you do it...you put it in a syringe and into the bps mouth :bonk: Im so dum

have you guys ever heard of a chat room? how about IM?
maybe next time you wont ruin a thread with 5 pages of nothing.

I feed frozen/thawed. Cheaper, cleaner, easier, and safer.

It is illegal here in UK to feed live, so its always F/T for me & my lot..


I wouldnt feed live anyway...I dont think it would be nice to watch, or I wouldnt want to run the risk of my snakes getting hurt.

Well We feed live rats to the snakes that eat live rats, we feed ft mice to the one that only eats ft mice, we feed live mice to the one that eats live mice,Shoot i would feed live gerbils ft chickens live chickens to those that would eat them.Really our only goal is to keep our snakes heathly and growing at a reasonably rate.Would We like all of our collection to eat live rats yes its easier for us as we raise them.The big thing with raising our own rats is I know what they are fed that they are in the best health.I Think that we get better results from feeding rats we have bred ourselves they are in better shape size and health then those we had bought from pet stores.Its just my opinion that like those that breed cows or other animals for human consuption that you get what you put into your breeding stock. They use vitamins and stuff to insure that they get the best return when they are sold and we get the best quality meats we buy.I think it's only reasonable to assume that if you feed and keep your breeding supply of snake food healthy you will see the results in your snakes.All in all it comes down to what keeps your snakes eating and healthy.One last thing on feeding live as long as you take time to keep the prey approraitly sized or a little smaller then the snake needs you should be fine if you have to feed more then one prey item We would rather do this then see the snake hurt also allows the snake to decide how hungry they really are.

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Originally Posted by lisa77

It is illegal here in UK to feed live

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thats the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard.:O

LIVE PREY for life!!! :)

my snake loves eating them live and i have never had a problem w/ my snake eating so im sticking w/ it...

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Originally Posted by lisa77

It is illegal here in UK to feed live, so its always F/T for me & my lot..


I wouldnt feed live anyway...I dont think it would be nice to watch, or I wouldnt want to run the risk of my snakes getting hurt.

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its very cool to watch actually...mice r so cute and i love all animals but watching the snake eat that mouse is very entertaining to me :)...and who cares if its illegal..how r they gonna find out if u fed it live??

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

its very cool to watch actually...mice r so cute and i love all animals but watching the snake eat that mouse is very entertaining to me :)

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do you mean entertaining as in the snake exibiting its natural instincts, entertaining. please tell me thats what it is.

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

...and who cares if its illegal..how r they gonna find out if u fed it live?

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its illegal either way and a law abiding citizen should be honest enough to not disobey the law no matter how ridiculous the laws may be.