How many snakes in a cage?

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Originally Posted by BALLPYTHON

well none of you guys keep 2 bps in the same enclosure so why should i listen to people who have absolutley no experience on this topic??

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Listen. It is crystal clear that you have no intention of listening to people who know more than you through years of experience with Ball Pythons. Therefore its probably best that you go ahead with your mad scientist experiment and quit the trolling. Please...

How do you know they know more than me? How do you know what my experience with these animals is? How do i know what knowledge everyone else has? Someone said these aren't lab mice and therefore should not be treated like them. Who is to say lab mice should be treated the way they are? You say i'm a mad scientest. What kind of extreme unimagineable tests am i performing on these living things? I am a responsible keeper and these two female bps that i am keeping in the same enclosure will grow up to be just as healthy as my other bps that live alone. First sight of anything unusual and i will separate them. I'm not torturing them. I have respect for all living things and i am pretty confident in what i am doing.
If keeping two bps together is so horrible then everyone here should release all their snakes back into the wild because placing any wild animal in captivity is just as bad.

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Originally Posted by BALLPYTHON

well none of you guys keep 2 bps in the same enclosure so why should i listen to people who have absolutley no experience on this topic??

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I was housing ball pythons in groups of 2.4, 1.3, and even 5.6 over 10 years ago. Been there, done that. After having years of experience with communal housing of ball pythons I now house them individually ... and guess what? Now they eat better, breed better, get sick less, and are overall healthier.

Where do you think that the advice to house them individually comes from? Do you think people are just making it up? Give me a break.

-adam

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Originally Posted by BALLPYTHON

First sight of anything unusual and i will separate them. I'm not torturing them.

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When you wake up one morning and one is gone because the other ate it, it will be too late to separate them. Ball pythons can and will eat other ball pythons in the right circumstances. I would think that being eaten alive is pretty torturous.

-adam

Why even tempt fate when you can so easily know for certain that your snakes are healthy? What is your point in keeping them together anyhow!?

actually keeping bp's in captivity is healthier for the snake. The owner will (or should) get rid of all mites/ticks/parisites and cure diseases. Ball Pythons actually live better in captivity and have a longer life span.

Please do remember though that ball pythons are a subtle snake in so many ways. You may well not see the "damage" of housing together in a very obvious, immediate way or may see it when it is quite advanced.

Please also remember that in this "experiment" of yours, it's not you that will pay the costs....it's those two lovely female snakes that deserve the best possible captive experience that a caring, moral owner can provide for them.

As far as not trusting the wisdom and advice of those far more experienced than you (or me for that matter), it is part of the human ability to understand action and reaction, consequence and adjustment of one's own behaviour based on another's experience. Example: if Bob down the street burns his hand on an open flame, do you need to in fact stick your hand in a flame to "trust" in the fact that fire burns? Of course not! As a human being you learned as a child that fire burns (wisdom passed on by your parents) so in fact we all daily adjust our behaviours based on things we have NEVER experienced personally.

I know that none of this will likely change your mind, so may I say now I'm sorry the snakes will pay for your curiousty or need to somehow "be right".


~~Joanna~~

Get ready for the evening TROLL CALL!!

Anyway, I am done with this sillyness.

Back to my mini vacation!

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Originally Posted by BALLPYTHON

I have respect for all living things and i am pretty confident in what i am doing.

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if you are confident that what you are doing is ok then why did you feel the need to come here to ask about it? deep down you must KNOW that it is not good, whether you choose to accept it or not. to respect living things is to do what is truly best for them no matter what the cost. it is SO easy to keep your snakes separately--i really don't understand why you are so stubborn about keeping them together, especially when you have other snakes that you do house separately. why do you feel the need to experiment when all of the correct methods and best practices have already been proven and documented? this is needless suffering that will be felt only by your two female ball pythons. i am quite sad for them. :(

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i dont believe in keeping them together but i just wanna see for myself
ill let you know how it goes

__________________
JULIAN

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I have respect for all living things and i am pretty confident in what i am doing.

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So you respect them enough to do this to them even though you don't beleive in it because you want to satisfy your curiosity? That about right?

man smulkin, you hit the nail right on the head. and i would like too say that i kept my BP's together and i didnt see any health problems but i did notice the female didnt come out that much for the 2 months i had then together, once i seperated them(because i asked this same question on this same board) the female became much more active(probably because she wasnt as stressed). so BALLPYTHON if you really care for those snakes welfare and happiness you will seperate them!!!!

I understand there are people with many many more years of experience with bps here and i wasnt trying to say i they are wrong, i was just trying to make a point.
your beloved bp god adam has kept groups of bps in the past when he first started out and now he has experience and a greater understanding on their behaviour and husbandry. i recall adam even telling me in a past post to "walk the walk and now i am.
it doesnt matter what i say cuz anything i write will just come back in a quote that i will have to defend again.

Lets keep it civil everyone .... we wouldnt want anyone just browsing the forums to get a bad idea about us.

oh julian. you are walking the walk? the walk that has already been proven by many years of experience to be the wrong walk? *sigh*

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Originally Posted by BALLPYTHON

your beloved bp god adam has kept groups of bps in the past when he first started out and now he has experience and a greater understanding on their behaviour and husbandry.

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Julian, shouldn't this tell you all that you need to know right here? Adam admitted that he used to do it until he got a better understanding & more experience & now he doesn't do it because he knows how harmful & dangerous it can be. Maybe it took him having to learn that on his own but now you are afforded the opportunity to not have to learn it through running into problems with the snakes you claim to love & more importantly without them having to suffer because of it. Yet you come on here & say that regardless of what research has proven & regardless of what is right, you are still going to house them together?? What sorts of responses would you expect to illicit from a group of people who are madly in love with the very creatures you are putting in harm's way? It would be like going to a dog forum & telling them that you plan to keep your dog in a cage with a starving lion & then getting upset with the people on the dog forum when they yell at you for putting your dog in a position to get eaten!

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Originally Posted by Eddie_Z

Julian, shouldn't this tell you all that you need to know right here? Adam admitted that he used to do it until he got a better understanding & more experience & now he doesn't do it because he knows how harmful & dangerous it can be. Maybe it took him having to learn that on his own but now you are afforded the opportunity to not have to learn it through running into problems with the snakes you claim to love & more importantly without them having to suffer because of it. Yet you come on here & say that regardless of what research has proven & regardless of what is right, you are still going to house them together?? What sorts of responses would you expect to illicit from a group of people who are madly in love with the very creatures you are putting in harm's way? It would be like going to a dog forum & telling them that you plan to keep your dog in a cage with a starving lion & then getting upset with the people on the dog forum when they yell at you for putting your dog in a position to get eaten!

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Excellent point Eddie, but it most likely will fall on deaf ears. This guy got exactly what he came here for. To stir the pot and get a bunch of people all amped up. Its sad to me that some people have nothing better to do with their life or lack thereof.

Just remember......If everyone had to 'figure out things for themselves', there would be alot of people in the world still trying to invent to wheel.

Since people with experience know that a certain way of doing things works the best, why not use their experiences to prevent yourself from making the same mistakes that they have. ha ha.....that was the whole reason we needed to take history classes throughout school.....learn how others have messed up, so that you do not have to :)

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

Just remember......If everyone had to 'figure out things for themselves', there would be alot of people in the world still trying to invent to wheel.

Since people with experience know that a certain way of doing things works the best, why not use their experiences to prevent yourself from making the same mistakes that they have. ha ha.....that was the whole reason we needed to take history classes throughout school.....learn how others have messed up, so that you do not have to :)

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Study after study has been done proving that saturated fat is bad for you and contributes to heart disease. I don't feel the need to test that for myself by overindulging in pop tarts and pork rinds. I'll take the word of the people in the know!

Can we lock this so we don't give him any more attention????

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Study after study has been done proving that saturated fat is bad for you and contributes to heart disease. I don't feel the need to test that for myself by overindulging in pop tarts and pork rinds. I'll take the word of the people in the know!

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ha, ha pop tarts are bad?! yeeah that's a lesson i had to learn for myself after finding out that because of my eating habits my sugar level was waaaay too high and i was on the road to serious long term diabetes. oops! no more snack cakes for me. :(

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Originally Posted by BALLPYTHON

your beloved bp god adam has kept groups of bps in the past when he first started out and now he has experience and a greater understanding on their behaviour and husbandry. i recall adam even telling me in a past post to "walk the walk and now i am.

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Have I ever mentioned the time that I urinated on an electic fence? ... Hope your not going to try that one too?? :O :(

-adam

I think this one's about run its course.

*edit*
If anyone wants to discuss the topic further, we can always make another one without the "name-calling".