Big News Coming Tomorrow!

It'll be interesting to see what comes out of the eggs, that's for sure. I also feel bad that a high number of female deserts will undoubtedly be put at risk next season....lets hope people sit back, breathe, and wait to see what's really going on here before doing so. :please:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Well I say "untrained eye" because i'm not familiar with the desert morph. I'm not a TOTAL noob though, so i think completely disregarding my opinion and saying that i'm wrong just bc Amir and Brant say so is kinda unfair.

I'm willing to bet a $50 donation to BP.net that no desert babies come out of that clutch. Any desert babies hatch and i'll have Judy comment here to confirm I made the donation. I already said I respect all these veterans opinions, so I think you should respect mine too. I'm not saying the snake IS NOT a desert citrus pastel 100% (maybe i didnt make that clear), I'm just saying I don't see it and am willing to bet it isn't.

No harm no foul, we're all just sharing our opinions... :gj:

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I'm not trying to be offensive but I would like to say that I think you are wrong based not only on Amir and Brant but also my own professional opinion. A $50 donation to BP.net is a nice gift so I'm sure that the admins will be happy for your generosity but the ONLY way you'll be saving your cash is if the OP misses the 50% odds of Deserts (which is possible regardless of the number of eggs produced) :)

So now we have 3 of the best in the game pretty much confirming the genes of this animal which includes the breeder himself. So as far as the genetics of this snake goes, I am convinced that it has desert in it. Now we wait...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

One snake dropping a clutch, if it's a desert which I'm kind of skeptical of, doesn't change the grande scheme of things.

Carry on ...

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Here come negative nancy to the party!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

Of course. Natural selection would probably take care of just about every morph we own in the wild.
I own an English Bulldog, a breed that is still bred despite many problems.

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English Bulldogs are delivered by Cesarean. If they arent, and I know someone who had their girl give natural birth, she was so badly injured during labor that she's no longer capable of breeding. If people pursue surgical removal of eggs from their ball pythons to prevent their girls from getting eggbound, that's one thing. It's another entirely to treat your pet's life and wellbeing like a crapshoot. I'm very glad this turned out well for OP, I would not have done it, and I suspect that we won't be seeing desert babies from that clutch. As I said before, whatever genes are at play here, I hope all the babies are healthy. I mean no ill-will when I suggest that I just don't believe this is the time it gets proven.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by interloc

I really don't understand playing devils advocate in this situation. This could be the biggest news to come into the ball world in a long time. Why knock the Op? Also one of the most well known breeders (Amir) has his name and reputation on the line here. I realize that there will always be doubters, but why?

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Nobody who has posted so far has been insulting to anyone else, at least not that I can see. Playing the devil's advocate is not the same thing as voicing genuine disagreement, and OP should understand that when I say I don't see desert, it's not an insult, it's an attempt to help illuminate the situation. Assume that I'm right for a minute. All of these eggs go to term and nothing that comes out is desert in any remote way. If OP hadn't considered that Amir might have made a perfectly honest mistake when labeling his girl, there could be some genuine confusion. It's not even meant to insult Amir, because be real, mistakes happen. I'm sure if somehow this female wasn't really a desert, Amir would do right by OP and work out some agreement to make them both happy.

Threads that consist of nothing but "subbed" and "Congrats!" are kind of boring anyway, right? We're all here to discuss and learn, so don't squash the discussion by reading insults where none were intended.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SaintTawny

English Bulldogs are delivered by Cesarean. If they arent, and I know someone who had their girl give natural birth, she was so badly injured during labor that she's no longer capable of breeding.

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And this right here is why these dogs should not be bred anymore, it says something if an animal has become such a mutant that it cant even deliver its young itself, its sick, immoral and unethical to continue to breed this way. I suppose the same could be said with the desert gene, if its at the point where they have to have surgery to get eggs. Now I don't necessarily know about that, all I know is what is continually spread that they are all infertile or eggbound, whether thats true or not, I do not know.

One thing I haven't seen asked yet (unless I just missed it) is where does Amir's line of deserts originate from? I'm not sure how many there are, but I understand there are several lines of deserts all originating from separate wild caught founders. Is that correct?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkS

One thing I haven't seen asked yet (unless I just missed it) is where does Amir's line of deserts originate from? I'm not sure how many there are, but I understand there are several lines of deserts all originating from separate wild caught founders. Is that correct?

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Hello old friend ;)

There are two main lines of Desert, the ProExotics and Pete Kahl lines. The ProE line is typically a lot cleaner and brighter than the Pete Kahl line but this isn't always true. Personally I've worked with the Pete Kahl line for many years and I have produced some stellar animals from it. I still admit that generally the ProE line is more attractive. I too would like to know what line of Desert, Amir is working (perhaps both but I just sent him a text but I don't know how long until I get a response)

Here are VERY ACCURATE photos of three different Pastel Deserts that we have produced in the past from the Pete Kahl line...

http://www.exoticsbynature.com/image...02/final/1.jpg

http://www.exoticsbynature.com/image...01/final/1.jpg

http://www.exoticsbynature.com/image...01/final/3.jpg

Congrats on the clutch excited to see what comes out. Despite all those hounding you as to why you bred her, i say you're making great progress with the gene. We all take risk breeding every year. Congrats again.

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Originally Posted by Sean : EbN

Hello old friend ;)

There are two main lines of Desert, the ProExotics and Pete Kahl lines. The ProE line is typically a lot cleaner and brighter than the Pete Kahl line but this isn't always true. Personally I've worked with the Pete Kahl line for many years and I have produced some stellar animals from it. I still admit that generally the ProE line is more attractive. I too would like to know what line of Desert, Amir is working (perhaps both but I just sent him a text but I don't know how long until I get a response)

Here are VERY ACCURATE photos of three different Pastel Deserts that we have produced in the past from the Pete Kahl line...

http://www.exoticsbynature.com/image...02/final/1.jpg

http://www.exoticsbynature.com/image...01/final/1.jpg

http://www.exoticsbynature.com/image...01/final/3.jpg

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Hey Sean! You never disappoint with your posts. Always enlightened by them. Correct me if I am wrong but the Pro Exotics line was originally the Stan Chiras line that Pro Exotics bought out. I obtained my first desert male that was an offspring of a male that came directly from Stan. My second male came from the Kahl line. These represent the only 2 lines I am aware of unless Amir, who is known for obtaining imported stock, has a new line of deserts. I have not caught wind of this so I doubt this is the case.

In regards to other opinions (and I do respect most of them), not breeding desert crosses would have been very short sighted. The world was flat...remember? :colbert:

I applaud the original poster and I am confident that the snake in question is a citrus pastel desert.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sean : EbN

I'm not trying to be offensive but I would like to say that I think you are wrong based not only on Amir and Brant but also my own professional opinion. A $50 donation to BP.net is a nice gift so I'm sure that the admins will be happy for your generosity but the ONLY way you'll be saving your cash is if the OP misses the 50% odds of Deserts (which is possible regardless of the number of eggs produced) :)

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There's like a 1% chance of that happening if she does carry the desert gene. So if she's a desert like you say she is, we more than likely (99%ish chance) will see at least one snake hatch with the desert gene in it.

I'm not trying to come off as cocky. If i'm proven wrong i'll have no problem donating the money (that gets me like a silver membership, right...?) and i'll come here and admit I was wrong.

I can't wait until september. ;)

The idea that we have got all of the in's and outs of reptile genetics figured out is both arrogant and dumb. The idea that there is a female Desert out there that has laid viable eggs really isn't all that hard to believe. I don't know if this is the start of something wonderful for the morph or just a strike of lightening. But even in other animals we see the impossible happen from time to time like female mules giving birth and even hybrids. It'll will be interesting to see if this is a onetime deal with this female or if she'll have problems later.. Either way till we know for sure there is no reason to jump to any conclusions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

The idea that we have got all of the in's and outs of reptile genetics figured out is both arrogant and dumb. The idea that there is a female Desert out there that has laid viable eggs really isn't all that hard to believe. I don't know if this is the start of something wonderful for the morph or just a strike of lightening. But even in other animals we see the impossible happen from time to time like female mules giving birth and even hybrids. It'll will be interesting to see if this is a onetime deal with this female or if she'll have problems later.. Either way till we know for sure there is no reason to jump to any conclusions.

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I fully agree with this.

I think the only real issue I have here is that, if I were the OP, I would have waited until I had viable hatchlings to make an announcement. Less chance of this turning into a Al Capone's Vault kinda thing.

Also, the super hyped, wait till tomorrow, start to the thread was a bit much... but hey to each his own on that one.

First off- congrats on the clutch! I really hope that she is in fact a Desert. This may seem off the wall but when I saw the pic of your female(on FB from a Reptile Report post), my first thought was Pastel Enchi. Not saying that it is, but just wanted to mention what I think is a possibility worth considering. Is it possible that the father of your girl was a low expression Tiger? There were a lot of those things early on, and it seemed like sometimes people had trouble telling certain Tigers and Deserts apart. Might sound crazy but it would definitely explain the 6 perfect eggs:weirdface

Again, I hope I'm wrong. I have never had a Desert and haven't even seen a Pastel Desert in person. The next 60 days will feel like forever, I can promise you that!

I like to keep a very realistic stance on nearly everything I see or read or hear but as I read through this thread I cant help but be hopeful for this to work out yet there is still so much to be done from here. Those eggs must first make it full term. Fingers crossed for the OP and the future of this project.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bxjoon

So now we have 3 of the best in the game pretty much confirming the genes of this animal which includes the breeder himself. So as far as the genetics of this snake goes, I am convinced that it has desert in it. Now we wait...

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This is why i hope either the snake dies to prove a point or its not desert. Taking people's opinion. Cause they have a lot of money invested irritates the absolute crap out of me.

Call me a bad person, lol. I just don't think it's a desert. And if it happens to be, that's gotta be one of the worst looking pastels.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

If i'm proven wrong i'll have no problem donating the money (that gets me like a silver membership, right...?)

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Didn't know "donation" and "paid membership" were one and the same! Why don't you do both?:headbang:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

There's like a 1% chance of that happening if she does carry the desert gene. So if she's a desert like you say she is, we more than likely (99%ish chance) will see at least one snake hatch with the desert gene in it.

I'm not trying to come off as cocky. If i'm proven wrong i'll have no problem donating the money (that gets me like a silver membership, right...?) and i'll come here and admit I was wrong.

I can't wait until september. ;)

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A 1% chance? Really??? :confusd:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

This is why i hope either the snake dies to prove a point or its not desert. Taking people's opinion. Cause they have a lot of money invested irritates the absolute crap out of me.

Call me a bad person, lol. I just don't think it's a desert. And if it happens to be, that's gotta be one of the worst looking pastels.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

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Wow! Harsh. You "HOPE" the animals dies so you can prove a point?! Even if the pairing didn't prove out why would you hope that an animal perishes to prove your point?! And then that pessimistic statement that the snake is one of the worst pastels you have ever seen?!.... Hmmmm... Better idea!!!! Snag some popcorn sit back and wait for the outcome to either talk crap or hold your tongue. Bashing the OP in what seems like an interesting thread makes for a bad read. :/

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Originally Posted by Markus Jayne

A 1% chance? Really??? :confusd:

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Technically it's a 1.56% chance.

With 6 eggs that have one parent that has the desert gene. Each egg has a 50% chance of having the desert gene.

If they all hatch the odds for the clutch are this:

1.56% chance of zero desert babies.
9.38% chance of one desert baby.
23.44% chance of two desert babies.
31.25% chance of three desert babies.
23.44% chance of four desert babies.
9.38% chance of five desert babies.
1.56% chance of six desert babies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Herpenthusiast3

Wow! Harsh. You "HOPE" the animals dies so you can prove a point?! Even if the pairing didn't prove out why would you hope that an animal perishes to prove your point?! And then that pessimistic statement that the snake is one of the worst pastels you have ever seen?!.... Hmmmm... Better idea!!!! Snag some popcorn sit back and wait for the outcome to either talk crap or hold your tongue. Bashing the OP in what seems like an interesting thread makes for a bad read. :/

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Not harsh, if you want to be a sheep because people who have a lot of money in this come in a say crap then by all means.

I'll think for myself, however. And I won't compromise my opinion because these highly invested people say I'm wrong.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

This is why i hope either the snake dies to prove a point or its not desert.

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I hope you mistyped this sentence. You don't really want the snake to die do you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jay Mechtly

I hope you mistyped this sentence. You don't really want the snake to die do you?

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Its bad logic, at this point, since the snake has passed the dying because of breeding point. However, I stand by it still.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

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Originally Posted by grcforce327

Didn't know "donation" and "paid membership" were one and the same! Why don't you do both?:headbang:

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Oh no, i'll do both. I didn't know they were different. I assumed paid membership was just what you got when you donated money. Poor choice of words on my part

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

Not harsh, if you want to be a sheep because people who have a lot of money in this come in a say crap then by all means.

I'll think for myself, however. And I won't compromise my opinion because these highly invested people say I'm wrong.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

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Your crude and amateur opinion is upsetting! If you think I am commenting because of my financial stance in the Desert project, you are boldly mistaken! Since the news of Desert females being "pet-only quality" I have continued turn my ORIGINAL investment over EVERY YEAR! Yes I'm saying that the amount of money that my company spent on Deserts has been profitable EVERY YEAR including this year when Desert animals were $100-500 each.

You're ignorant for writing what you have since you don't understand the gene or what it looks like. To say that you wish failure so that our "company line" is cut is foolish. You continue to be WRONG :colbert:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sean : EbN

Hello old friend ;)

There are two main lines of Desert, the ProExotics and Pete Kahl lines. The ProE line is typically a lot cleaner and brighter than the Pete Kahl line but this isn't always true. Personally I've worked with the Pete Kahl line for many years and I have produced some stellar animals from it. I still admit that generally the ProE line is more attractive. I too would like to know what line of Desert, Amir is working (perhaps both but I just sent him a text but I don't know how long until I get a response)

Here are VERY ACCURATE photos of three different Pastel Deserts that we have produced in the past from the Pete Kahl line...

http://www.exoticsbynature.com/image...02/final/1.jpg

http://www.exoticsbynature.com/image...01/final/1.jpg

http://www.exoticsbynature.com/image...01/final/3.jpg

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Hey Sean good to see you again too, it's been a while. Thanks for posting those pictures, that's precisely why I'm excited about this development. No, that doesn't mean I going to go out and buy a bunch of desert females just so I can breed them, that would be foolish. But it does give me hope for the future and I'm anxiously awaiting to see what happens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Markus Jayne

A 1% chance? Really??? :confusd:

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Yep. Look at what Jay M. said. I was on break at work and responding fast so I didn't have time to type out the math. So basically, if that female has desert in her, we can say with confidence there's like a 98.5% chance we'll see at least one desert hatch. That was my point. Sorry, didn't mean to be confusing about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Yep. Look at what Jay M. said. I was on break at work and responding fast so I didn't have time to type out the math. So basically, if that female has desert in her, we can say with confidence there's like a 98.5% chance we'll see at least one desert hatch. That was my point. Sorry, didn't mean to be confusing about it.

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... and my point is that missing the 50% odds on ONE clutch is common! It happens to me every year and as per your calculations should happen to me AT LEAST 3 times this year :O

@Kodieh: Do you have any basis to substantiate YOUR claim that the three people in question are actually lying to us all and misrepresenting the hobby due to their "investment" in the success of this project??

If not, I request that you stop the mudslinging towards them; I know I personally don't want to come to a thread to see this kind of baseless accusations. Expressing your opinion is fine, but you can do it without insinuating that others only have selfish interests in mind (especially when, after claiming that they only have their interests in mind, you show that you are no better than they are by wishing your view on the poor snake in question.)

I bid you good day

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/07/8y6egy6e.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/07/beta4uze.jpg

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sean : EbN

The neonate photo that you posted above in comparison to the one of the Citrus Pastel (a poorly overcolored photo which looks like it was taken at a reptile show with low K, HPS lights from an overhead warehouse lamp interfering) shows the animals to have very different patterns. Let me try to explain... Notice the head on the Desert in question. The center is an even tone of purple with no really obvious patterning. The non-desert animal would have more of a visible pattern or at least not so even of a tone. Also the cleanliness of the pattern on the Desert with less "keyhole" alien eye stuff going on and a more crisp definition of lines.

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Sean,

I've re-read this paragraph of yours several times, and I just want to make sure I'm reading it clearly. Are you saying both of these snakes are pastel deserts? Or only the snake in the second picture?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sean : EbN

Your crude and amateur opinion is upsetting! If you think I am commenting because of my financial stance in the Desert project, you are boldly mistaken! Since the news of Desert females being "pet-only quality" I have continued turn my ORIGINAL investment over EVERY YEAR! Yes I'm saying that the amount of money that my company spent on Deserts has been profitable EVERY YEAR including this year when Desert animals were $100-500 each.

You're ignorant for writing what you have since you don't understand the gene or what it looks like. To say that you wish failure so that our "company line" is cut is foolish. You continue to be WRONG :colbert:

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And this pompous attitude affirms my opinion.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jake Milbradt

Sean,

I've re-read this paragraph of yours several times, and I just want to make sure I'm reading it clearly. Are you saying both of these snakes are pastel deserts? Or only the snake in the second picture?

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Jake,

Sorry for confusion... only the snake in the second photo is a Desert. IF the top photo animal actually looks that good and it wasn't a poorly colored/lit photo it is a great looking Citrus Pastel but certainly not Desert.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Yep. Look at what Jay M. said. I was on break at work and responding fast so I didn't have time to type out the math. So basically, if that female has desert in her, we can say with confidence there's like a 98.5% chance we'll see at least one desert hatch. That was my point. Sorry, didn't mean to be confusing about it.

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Mike how many animals have bred over the years? Never missed on odds? Ever had a clutch of normal hatching? If you never did, you are either VERY lucky or have not produced enough clutches.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Yep. Look at what Jay M. said. I was on break at work and responding fast so I didn't have time to type out the math. So basically, if that female has desert in her, we can say with confidence there's like a 98.5% chance we'll see at least one desert hatch. That was my point. Sorry, didn't mean to be confusing about it.

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Incredible odds really. Having said that I have had several big 10 - 12 egg clutches produce only one morph when my odds were 50% on each egg. Just now I am hatching an 8 egg clutch of pied het albino x albino and I only produced 1 albino. :tears:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

And this pompous attitude affirms my opinion.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

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It affirms nothing since my "pompous attitude" is stating FACT. That FACT is that the animal IS a Pastel Desert. Your opinion doesn't count because your opinion is WRONG. Call me any names you'd like, wish animals dead and breeder's to fail... FACT remains that you're wrong.

I heard from another person who read another forum which then was referred to by his sister in law (forgot the link) that the NSA and the IRS are behind the Great Desert Conspiracy.

I realize that without the link, my word means nothing, but trust me, I know everything there is to know about reptiles because I sit behind my computer all day and read about them from other people who sit behind their computers all day who also read about them. Except for the porn breaks here and there, I absorbed everything there is to know about things I have no experience with.

So without knowing a thing about the gene, without owning one, without ever really breeding a snake and with only a rudimentary understanding of snake reproduction in general, it is an immutable fact that all Desert Females are programmed genetically to die when bred. Anyone who thinks otherwise is perpetrating a scam.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skiploder

i heard from another person who read another forum which then was referred to by his sister in law (forgot the link) that the nsa and the irs are behind the great desert conspiracy.

I realize that without the link, my word means nothing, but trust me, i know everything there is to know about reptiles because i sit behind my computer all day and read about them from other people who sit behind their computers all day who also read about them. Except for the porn breaks here and there, i absorbed everything there is to know about things i have no experience with.

So without knowing a thing about the gene, without owning one, without ever really breeding a snake and with only a rudimentary understanding of snake reproduction in general, it is an immutable fact that all desert females are programmed genetically to die when bred. Anyone who thinks otherwise is perpetrating a scam.

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amen!

It is upsetting to see someone with so much "good" rep on this site being so negative. Not believing in something is one thing, which I think we can all respect.

However, hoping something will die is not the way to prove your point. This is, or should be a community based on the respect for life. This is why there is so much "negative" grease on this thread in the first place. Take money out of the picture, these are animals lives that we are talking about. People are going to do what they want, but plain out stating you hope it dies is just cruel.

For the sake of the desert gene, I hope the eggs hatch, and we see very healthy desert babies. I also hope that the OP keeps the girls back, and tries it again.

I also hope, that those with female deserts wait and see what plays out. Also, those with female deserts should understand that they are playing with fire, and should be ready at the drop of the hat with available finances and time to take care of the girl if complications arise.

I restate my original end, Congratulations to the OP, and good luck.

This is pretty cool news! :gj: Good luck OP, I hope that the eggs come to term and that that beautiful gene is given a new life in our hobby :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sean : EbN

Jake,

Sorry for confusion... only the snake in the second photo is a Desert. IF the top photo animal actually looks that good and it wasn't a poorly colored/lit photo it is a great looking Citrus Pastel but certainly not Desert.

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I'm also confused. Isn't the top picture the OP's girl as a baby? Sorry I don't have time to surf the whole thread again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sean : EbN

Jake,

Sorry for confusion... only the snake in the second photo is a Desert. IF the top photo animal actually looks that good and it wasn't a poorly colored/lit photo it is a great looking Citrus Pastel but certainly not Desert.

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Sean,

The snake in the first photo (the one you said is certainly not a desrt) is the animal that laid the clutch. The snake in the second photo was a pastel desert clutchmate that Amir posted. Here are the original posts from this thread with the photos in question:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Witchbane

The Pastel Calico she is locked with in the picture.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...IMG_1884-2.jpg

Her younger days as requested..

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...IMG_1987-1.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...c/IMG_1988.jpg

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by amir

Joseph,
Congrats on the clutch
I remember the animal you bought and it was one of 1.3 Citrus Deserts produced from a Desert male to a Super Citrus/Pastel female
There are 2 other girls out there so hopefully someone else can back your results in the near future.
I looked for baby pics and this one is all I could find of a sib
http://photos.imageevent.com/ballpyt...ment.aspx.jpeg
People should and will have to wait till next season to breed Deserts and by then all of these questions will be answered.
If it is of any importance, I do have 8.22 adult Deserts and Desert combos so you may not be the only one looking for answers.

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And here's a thread that the OP made a while back with an updated photo of the snake that laid the clutch:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ection-Update-)

Oh, and just for the record, I have no idea if that's a desert or not. lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sean : EbN

Jake,

Sorry for confusion... only the snake in the second photo is a Desert. IF the top photo animal actually looks that good and it wasn't a poorly colored/lit photo it is a great looking Citrus Pastel but certainly not Desert.

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The one in the first photo is the OP's female "citrus pastel desert" as a baby...

EDIT: looks like we're on the same page after all, sean! Haha :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Markus Jayne

Incredible odds really. Having said that I have had several big 10 - 12 egg clutches produce only one morph when my odds were 50% on each egg. Just now I am hatching an 8 egg clutch of pied het albino x albino and I only produced 1 albino. :tears:

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I feel your pain, I've got a clutch hatching now of Albino X het albino. Seven eggs, one albino. Hmm, maybe I should demand my money back ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Mike how many animals have bred over the years? Never missed on odds? Ever had a clutch of normal hatching? If you never did, you are either VERY lucky or have not produced enough clutches.

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I haven't hatched a single clutch (expecting my first one this year) I'm strictly speaking mathematically. You cannot argue with the math of it. I do realize people miss odds all the time.

EDIT: I do realize people miss odds all the time. You guys are pulling out these examples but out of ALL the clutches you've hatched, im sure the odds were overall better for you all.

Unfortunately math and the real world don't always jive; theoretical versus actual yield \o/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

Unfortunately math and the real world don't always jive; theoretical versus actual yield \o/

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No, I get that. I'm just trying to throw out the odds early on so when that female lays no deserts everyone is gunna try and say "oh well they just missed the odds". Those are some pretty heavy odds to argue against though. :p

Ok... I'm not going to quote someone in this post just trying to get it straight with MY opinion...

This animal is confusing I NOW REALIZE that this is the snake in the OP that has laid the eggs. There are a few things about this snake that make me a bit concerned... The pattern being heavily keyholed. The color on the sides where the yellow of the sides goes into the dorsal, it is a bit dirty and on a Desert that is so small it should be very clean. Lastly the eye stripe at the back of the head is blurry whereas on most Deserts the eye stripe is very defined, looks like it was drawn on with a pencil. Again I thought the OTHER photo was the OP's snake as a hatchling not this one. To say that this animal is a Desert is tough!
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...IMG_1987-1.jpg


This is definitely a Pastel Desert! It looks soft and crisp at the same time with not that much keyholeing in the pattern. This looks like the link photos I posted a couple of pages ago. ALSO I thought that this was a photo of the OP exact female. I didn't bother to match up the patterns since I have been referring to this photo this whole time. I now realize that this was a sibling to the OP's female.
http://photos.imageevent.com/ballpyt...ment.aspx.jpeg


This animal is one of our DEFINITE Pastel Deserts Note the stuff I mentioned above... Pattern, transitional side color and eye stripe.
http://www.exoticsbynature.com/image...01/final/3.jpg

We can't say for sure until it's eggs hatch LMAO Mike... what a whirlwind of confusion! I still have my same strong feelings about the other guy saying that I chimed in as part of the "desert market support" because that's BS I am happy to eat a little crap over the confusion but again... I didn't think the snake in the top photo was the OP animal but an animal that was being thought of as a Citrus Pastel. Thank you to Jake for trying to clear up his confusion of my post about the photos because it helped me find my own accidental confusion of the photos.

If any of that made any sense (I hope it did)

Sean,

No need to eat crap over anything. Simple misunderstanding. I'm happy you can see what I was saying now though. I read what you said about deserts and really analyzed it, since like i said, i don't have experience with the gene. But when i was comparing the two snakes side by side, it wasn't adding up. From what the OP said, these two snakes are siblings from the same clutch that amir hatched:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/08/hypuze9y.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/08/2y7unuve.jpg

The first one, I agree, DOES have desert in it. The second one, the OP's snake, just looks like a citrus pastel to me. Especially for being clutchmates, they look very different to me. This is why I asked the OP for baby pics. I'm wondering if Brant misunderstood the same thing and if his opinion would change?

This is Mike from Family Reptiles here in Lakeland, FL. Congratulations on your Desert clutch. Scott and Elizabeth, the owners of Family Reptiles, also have a viable clutch of eggs from a Desert female currently in the incubator and it is due to pip in a couple weeks. We also know of a few other breeders that have viable desert clutches and we are all trying to compare notes as to what factors may have been involved in the success. If you are willing, Scott would love to chat.