NERD Genetic Certification?

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Originally Posted by jkobylka

You could not possibly be more wrong about this. The idea that you could possibly pick two snakes that look exactly like those out of a random group of bps and have them prove to be het Clown is astronomically impossible. Having personally hatched hundreds of het clowns I can personally say they come in every variation of the normal "wild type" and have no markers or special look to them.

Not posting this to call you out, only to educate those who would be mislead by your post."

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Alright Justin. Post some pictures of the most normal looking het clowns you have hatched I would like to see how "normal" they look. Can you find any pictures of the hets you have produced that don't have a blushed out head or a head spot? Or one that doesn't have high whites around the alien heads? Not calling you out either, I just want to see some of these animals that you say look normal. I'm curious if my eye is drawn to different things.

NERD finally got back to me, they confirmed 100% that it is a fake.

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Originally Posted by DavidMundy

NERD finally got back to me, they confirmed 100% that it is a fake.

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but doesn't rule out that they are het clowns. he might of just used the name to sell and make money

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Originally Posted by crepers86

but doesn't rule out that they are het clowns. he might of just used the name to sell and make money

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Most likely not though, but I will be attempting to prove them out if I can get the females weight up by October. I will be breeding her to a male clown I'm planning on purchasing soon.

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Originally Posted by crepers86

but doesn't rule out that they are het clowns. he might of just used the name to sell and make money

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Het clowns or not the animals are not what the buyer paid for. They were marketed as purchased from and produced at NERD. They were not that right there means refund and animals get returned, het clowns or not its a lie and shady business and simply going "meh they still might be het clowns" just means you're ok with the untruthful business practices as long as in the end you come out on top..

What happens next time they decide to put someone Else's name on that piece of paper?? what if next time it's yours

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Het clowns or not the animals are not what the buyer paid for. They were marketed as purchased from and produced at NERD. They were not that right there means refund and animals get returned, het clowns or not its a lie and shady business and simply going "meh they still might be het clowns" just means you're ok with the untruthful business practices as long as in the end you come out on top..

What happens next time they decide to put someone Else's name on that piece of paper?? what if next time it's yours

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i didnt say it was still good. it would be like some one else recording a song and saying they wrote it

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Originally Posted by crepers86

but doesn't rule out that they are het clowns. he might of just used the name to sell and make money

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I don't care if they end up laying Golden Eggs, the guy is still a scammer who should never be trusted.

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Originally Posted by Slim

I don't care if they end up laying Golden Eggs, the guy is still a scammer who should never be trusted.

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Though I have said I'm confident that those snakes will prove out, I still believe what this guy did was wrong. Have I missed a BOI thread? It sounds like one is warranted here. Also, this OP must feel pretty bad knowing he was scammed, why wouldn't he want to save the next guys emotions? Just saying.

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Originally Posted by jkobylka

You could not possibly be more wrong about this. The idea that you could possibly pick two snakes that look exactly like those out of a random group of bps and have them prove to be het Clown is astronomically impossible. Having personally hatched hundreds of het clowns I can personally say they come in every variation of the normal "wild type" and have no markers or special look to them.

Not posting this to call you out, only to educate those who would be mislead by your post."

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I wanted to add that I never said I could pick two random animals out of a group of snakes and prove them to be something. What I asked the poster was if has bred the animals out that he said looked like these that were not het clowns. I know plenty of people that wholesale possible hets off all the time as normals, myself included. Does that make it possible for these normals that people are buying at pet shops as normals to be possible hets of any reccesive morph? Of course it does. Therefor, for somebody to say he sees normals like that all the time that are just that "normals" is a strong statement. Is my statement about those animals proving out strong...Yep. That is my opinion though.

In regards to being misled by my post...If you read my other posts, I stated you should only by hets from somebody you trust or somebody reputable. But, I read a thread a while ago where a het from BHB never proved out and BHB was having a hard time making the situation right. So who knows who to trust right?

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

I read a thread a while ago where a het from BHB never proved out and BHB was having a hard time making the situation right. So who knows who to trust right?

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Hold up, before you go putting BHB's name on blast like that think about it. I believe I know the thread your talking about, and it was a snake bought second hand that was supposedly from BHB. IMO Brian owes some one who bought a second hand snake nothing. Who knows if that snake even came from BHB. Brian produces top notch stuff, and I personally have been happy with everything I have gotten from him.

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Originally Posted by Rob

Hold up, before you go putting BHB's name on blast like that think about it. I believe I know the thread your talking about, and it was a snake bought second hand that was supposedly from BHB. IMO Brian owes some one who bought a second hand snake nothing. Who knows if that snake even came from BHB. Brian produces top notch stuff, and I personally have been happy with everything I have gotten from him.

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Yea it was worse than that. Guy "A" bought the snake off of a friend "guy B" as a het whatever, Guy "A" tried to breed het to het and didn't produce anything. Guy "A" asks guy "B" where he got it from guy "B" tells guy "A" BHB but has nothing to prove it. So guy "A" sells the animal to guy "C" as a BHB het. guy "C" tried for like 2+ years to produce the morph never could. Guy "C" contacts guy "A" and says you sold me a bum het.. guy "A" says I couldn't produce anything either but I got it off of guy "B" who got it from BHB. It's not my fault take it up with BHB.. Now BHB is being made to be the bad guy because he wont give guy "A" "B" and "C" their money back..see how that labeling that animal as a NERD het can get sideways quick.

That just gave me a headache LOL

^^^^^ Me TOO!

No worries if I ever attempt to sell these snakes proven or not I will not advertise them as NERD's

As for posting a BOI I asked for help I have no idea how to how to go about that. So unless someone wants to help me there won't be one.

I also just want to say thanks again to whoever posted in this thread and helped me out. Lesson learned on my part.

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Originally Posted by Rob

Hold up, before you go putting BHB's name on blast like that think about it. I believe I know the thread your talking about, and it was a snake bought second hand that was supposedly from BHB. IMO Brian owes some one who bought a second hand snake nothing. Who knows if that snake even came from BHB. Brian produces top notch stuff, and I personally have been happy with everything I have gotten from him.

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The seller who sold the snake in the bhb deal I was talking about is a good friend of the buyer. So with your statement about a guarantee following the snake your basically saying that the gaurntee or genetic documentation pertaining to this thread is irrelevant besides the fact that the seller lied? Btw, I don't care who the breeder is, if they have had an issue I will state it if it is relevant to the issue at hand. There is already a thread on fauna about that het issue with bhb, all I did was reference it. The person who put bhb on blast was the guy who received a bad het that links back to bhb.

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Originally Posted by Rob

Hold up, before you go putting BHB's name on blast like that think about it. I believe I know the thread your talking about, and it was a snake bought second hand that was supposedly from BHB. IMO Brian owes some one who bought a second hand snake nothing. Who knows if that snake even came from BHB. Brian produces top notch stuff, and I personally have been happy with everything I have gotten from him.

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So your statement about a guarantee following the snake your basically saying that the gaurntee or genetic documentation pertaining to this thread is irrelevant besides the fact that the seller lied? Btw, I don't care who the breeder is, if they have had an issue I will state it if it is relevant to the issue at hand. There is already a thread on fauna about that het issue with bhb, all I did was reference it. The person who put bhb on blast was the guy who received a bad het that links back to bhb.

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

So your statement about a guarantee following the snake your basically saying that the gaurntee or genetic documentation pertaining to this thread is irrelevant besides the fact that the seller lied? Btw, I don't care who the breeder is, if they have had an issue I will state it if it is relevant to the issue at hand. There is already a thread on fauna about that het issue with bhb, all I did was reference it. The person who put bhb on blast was the guy who received a bad het that links back to bhb.

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That's all fine and dandy. The instance I was referring to was the same that freakie frog was. Where BHB was basically a fall guy for someone else lying. If enough people spread false rumors about big name breeders to cover their lies, it will give them a poor reputation that is no fault of their own.

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

a het from BHB never proved out and BHB was having a hard time making the situation right

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This has nothing to do with this thread.

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

Alright Justin. Post some pictures of the most normal looking het clowns you have hatched I would like to see how "normal" they look. Can you find any pictures of the hets you have produced that don't have a blushed out head or a head spot? Or one that doesn't have high whites around the alien heads? Not calling you out either, I just want to see some of these animals that you say look normal. I'm curious if my eye is drawn to different things.

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Just for fun - which ones are het clown? And there are some that are in this bunch.

1.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9.../BaileeMar.jpg

2.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...o/IMG_5121.jpg

3.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9.../050809022.jpg

4.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9.../OliverNov.jpg

5.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...LeelooNov3.jpg

6.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...a/IMG_4661.jpg

7.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...le/Pickle6.jpg

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Just for fun - which ones are het clown? And there are some that are in this bunch.

1.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9.../BaileeMar.jpg

2.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...o/IMG_5121.jpg

3.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9.../050809022.jpg

4.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9.../OliverNov.jpg

5.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...LeelooNov3.jpg

6.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...a/IMG_4661.jpg

7.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...le/Pickle6.jpg

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Hey Robin, I never said that I could run around picking het clowns out of a random group of snakes. I'm not sure how you or Justin pulled that out of what I said. What I did say is the hets I have seen have a look to them. I'm definitely not going to run out and buy a snakes because it it looks like it could be "het" something and I don't recommend anybody doing that. Just for fun though I would say 4,6 and possibly 5. If I'm wrong...Let the roasting begin and I'm sure the group will run with it....Typical BP.net stuff if you are not in line with the consensus.

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

Hey Robin, I never said that I could run around picking het clowns out of a random group of snakes. I'm not sure how you or Justin pulled that out of what I said. What I did say is the hets I have seen have a look to them. I'm definitely not going to run out and buy a snakes because it it looks like it could be "het" something and I don't recommend anybody doing that. Just for fun though I would say 4,6 and possibly 5. If I'm wrong...Let the roasting begin and I'm sure the group will run with it....Typical BP.net stuff if you are not in line with the consensus.

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Because you said quite definitively that THESE two random snakes definitely were het clown.

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I know you never recieved paperwork, but, those snakes are definitely het Clown. I'm 99.9% sure and would almost be willing to offer you the money back if they don't prove out(even though I didn't sell them to you). Good luck on your paper hunt though.

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That's the reason that many of us took umbrage to your post.

From my point of view, it's a typical member response to attempt to insult the forum and its members with a "that's typical of BP.net" comment when they're back pedaling.

For the record, you correctly picked 2 out of the 3 het clowns that are pictured in that group.

I may not respond again until tomorrow night, because I am moving today, and waiting for the movers to arrive, and will not have internet access again until then.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Because you said quite definitively that THESE two random snakes definitely were het clown.



That's the reason that many of us took umbrage to your post.

From my point of view, it's a typical member response to attempt to insult the forum and its members with a "that's typical of BP.net" comment when they're back pedaling.

For the record, you correctly picked 2 out of the 3 het clowns that are pictured in that group.

I may not respond again until tomorrow night, because I am moving today, and waiting for the movers to arrive, and will not have internet access again until then.

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I have seen people get slammed on this forum for stating their point of view on little things. My comment has nothing to do with back pedaling. I was stating what happens on here all the time. I have made similar comments to that in other threads that I was not the one being attacked in. It kinda reminds me of gang mentality.

Back to the subject...The two snakes the OP posted were just that, 2 snakes that were sold as het clowns. I did not pick those two snakes out of a random group of animals. To me, they sure look like the hets I have seen. I picked 2 out of 3 het clowns for a random group of animals....Not bad if you ask me. Does that back me in the fact that they do have a general look to them? You even included picks of some of your dinkers. Maybe my eye just picks out the subtle differences better than others. I'm not sure, I just know het clowns have a look to them.

I bet the third animal was either number 1 or one of the ones rolled over in the picks

BTW, I'll highjack for moment here. Happy birthday Robin and congrats on your move.

I dont think any roasting should begin. Mike just put his money where his mouth was and proved he DOES in fact have an eye for hets. 2/3 of those 7 snakes is good enough for me. They all looked the same to me. The only one that looked slightly different was #6 but i wouldnt be able to confidentally say thats a het. Since the post was up for about 8 hours before Robin revealed the answers and no one else took a shot at guessing i think its safe to say that all 7 snakes looked the same to everyone else like they did to me. As i said before, when i get into breeding recessives and have any poss hets, you will be getting PM'd with pics and questions Mike lol

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

Alright Justin. Post some pictures of the most normal looking het clowns you have hatched I would like to see how "normal" they look. Can you find any pictures of the hets you have produced that don't have a blushed out head or a head spot? Or one that doesn't have high whites around the alien heads? Not calling you out either, I just want to see some of these animals that you say look normal. I'm curious if my eye is drawn to different things.

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Here's a whole clutch...

http://www.jkobylkareptiles.com/incu...hp?y=2010&c=36

Even if 90% of Het Clowns have blushed heads and high white sides (which they dont) and 10% of normals have the same traits, the normals with the traits would still outnumber the Het Clowns more than 100:1.

Remember that Clowns are one of the most rare recessives in the wild (according to how many have been collected)

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I know you never recieved paperwork, but, those snakes are definitely het Clown. I'm 99.9% sure and would almost be willing to offer you the money back if they don't prove out(even though I didn't sell them to you). Good luck on your paper hunt though.

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It was that statement that prompted me to post.

If you had said "some het Clowns have a "look" to them and those do, so maybe there is hope" I would have cheered you on. :gj::gj:

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Originally Posted by DavidMundy

As for posting a BOI I asked for help I have no idea how to how to go about that. So unless someone wants to help me there won't be one.

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Here is the link to fauna's BOI forum. You'll have to join if you haven't already. Be sure to read all the rules before posting about these guys and have all your ducks n a row. Also, inform the seller about the thread.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...splay.php?f=13

It might be a good idea to write a new thread on here with all the info clearly laid out and the sellers names in the thread title for quick reference. This was a VERY long read :P.

Sorry this happened and hope you get it resolved either way.

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Originally Posted by jkobylka

Here's a whole clutch...

http://www.jkobylkareptiles.com/incu...hp?y=2010&c=36

Even if 90% of Het Clowns have blushed heads and high white sides (which they dont) and 10% of normals have the same traits, the normals with the traits would still outnumber the Het Clowns more than 100:1.

Remember that Clowns are one of the most rare recessives in the wild (according to how many have been collected)

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Justin, those are double het albino genetic stripes.

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

Justin, those are double het albino genetic stripes.

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Are you saying that Het Albino changes the looks too?

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Originally Posted by jkobylka

Are you saying that Het Albino changes the looks too?

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We were talking about het Clowns here.

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

I have seen people get slammed on this forum for stating their point of view on little things. My comment has nothing to do with back pedaling. I was stating what happens on here all the time. I have made similar comments to that in other threads that I was not the one being attacked in. It kinda reminds me of gang mentality.

Back to the subject...The two snakes the OP posted were just that, 2 snakes that were sold as het clowns. I did not pick those two snakes out of a random group of animals. To me, they sure look like the hets I have seen. I picked 2 out of 3 het clowns for a random group of animals....Not bad if you ask me. Does that back me in the fact that they do have a general look to them? You even included picks of some of your dinkers. Maybe my eye just picks out the subtle differences better than others. I'm not sure, I just know het clowns have a look to them.

I bet the third animal was either number 1 or one of the ones rolled over in the picks

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#3 was the third het clown - she's the dam to my clown female. #5 is not.

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

BTW, I'll highjack for moment here. Happy birthday Robin and congrats on your move.

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Thank you!

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

We were talking about het Clowns here.

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I apologize, I had that clutch tagged as clown related on my site and didn't look further than that before I posted...

Here's three clutches of Het Clowns...

http://www.jkobylkareptiles.com/incu...hp?y=2010&c=29
http://www.jkobylkareptiles.com/incu...hp?y=2009&c=25
http://www.jkobylkareptiles.com/incu...hp?y=2009&c=58