adopted a ball python new here a bit scared

did you guys consider that the snake may have wanted to stay near her for warmth? i mean we are what? 98 degrees? thats like a real big soft heaty rock right there :D i lay down in my bed and let my snake crawl all over me and believe me she does it she curls up on my tummy too. its probably warm and comfy. sleeping with the snake is probably a bad idea though since you could roll over and stuff and not realize. but she said shes not gona do that again, so let it go. seems like she has a really loving home and a caring and concerned mommie. :) lucky snake :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exotica0095

i dont get what the fuss is about we only have one issue now


the ball python fed so hes good but hes 3 feet and all he ate was 1 mouse

the other forum members say to wait till next feeding day (tuesday) to feed him 2 mice

I am just a bit concerned that he may be hungry still but we will wait if that is the best thing to do

it would be nice if everyone could just concentrate on the snake and not other things that dont matter as its our first snake and we wanna take good care of it

---

Just make sure you keep up on the husbandry and he should continue to eat. Ball Pythons are known for being picky eaters. Are you feeding every 5 or 7 days?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by herekitkitty

did you guys consider that the snake may have wanted to stay near her for warmth? i mean we are what? 98 degrees? thats like a real big soft heaty rock right there :D i lay down in my bed and let my snake crawl all over me and believe me she does it she curls up on my tummy too. its probably warm and comfy. sleeping with the snake is probably a bad idea though since you could roll over and stuff and not realize. but she said shes not gona do that again, so let it go. seems like she has a really loving home and a caring and concerned mommie. :) lucky snake :D

---

THANK YOU!!! :P you seem to be the only one who doesnt think im crazy. Its so nice to have someone on here who has a snake that actually loves them as well. Im guessing the rest of these people have such nonchalant snakes that they cant comprehend having a snake that actually WANTS to be held, But some snakes actually do like the company, and whats more... I believe you are right about them knowing who cares for them and who wants whats best for him. Snakes are not as stupid as people seem to think they are. Maybe its all in how you treat them. :)

yeah i really think our snake is not like other snakes hes total original i mean hes got huge personality he knows the dogs wont hurt him and really seems like he loves us if you guys were here with us and the snake u would think so 2


we have not held him since hes eaten only lift his log to make sure hes ok today he seems a bit depressed cause he hid his head when we lifted the log to make sure hes ok, he might be a bit off cause he was expecting more to eat one mouse not good enough? the man that had him before tho told me it would be fine.

we are just excited that he takes dead feed because we both think feeding live animals to snakes is sick and cruel we are real animal lovers

How can you tell he is not like other snakes if you have never had another snake before?

One mouse per week is probably fine. I feed my snakes under 1,000 grams 10-15% of their body weight once per week.

So, how is dead feeding not "cruel"?

dead mice are killed instantly with co2 the alive ones are tortured to death


i have a friend that practices falconry with a red tail hawk and he will sometimes catch random snakes and throw it in with his hawk as a treat something i found pretty cruel and sick also but i guess red tail hawks love to eat snakes in the wild

Well actually the co2 does not kill them instantly. It basically puts them to sleep and then suffocates them. The whole process takes a few minutes.

When a snake constricts a mouse, it is very similar except for the sleeping bit. It suffocates to death, but it normally takes under a minute for the mouse to expire.

I don't have a problem with feeding frozen, and I don't have a problem with feeding live. But if you think it is cruel to feed a mouse to a snake, then no matter which way you do it, it is still cruel. In the end, the mouse still died to become food.

I am glad that you are okay with f/t though and that your snake takes it willingly :)

I wouldn't want to feed my animals wild caught prey...who knows where they have been and what they have eaten.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exotica0095

dead mice are killed instantly with co2 the alive ones are tortured to death


i have a friend that practices falconry with a red tail hawk and he will sometimes catch random snakes and throw it in with his hawk as a treat something i found pretty cruel and sick also but i guess red tail hawks love to eat snakes in the wild

---

It's not cruel, it's natural. Snakes have perfected their killing techniques for thousands of years. They don't suffocate or "torture" the rodent. They target the circulation system and stop the heart from beating. This prevents blood flow to the brain and any comprehension of what is happening.
Most people think that the constriction is associated with suffocation. That is actually not completely true because suffocation takes far too long to kill the rodent. If you time some of your snakes, you'll notice that their heart stops beating faster than it could from suffocation.

There is nothing cruel about nature's way of doing things. Cruelty is only done by humans, because we're the only ones that judge nature.

[QUOTE=Kaorte;1346701]How can you tell he is not like other snakes if you have never had another snake before?

Well, I could be wrong but from what everyone says on this forum, they seem to think snakes are incapable of love, and that they do not lile being held, but only tolerate it..... Well my snake seems to LOVE me and WANT to be held by me...

Everyone else seems to think that this is not possible, wich would lead me to believe their snake must not act like this.

"So, how is dead feeding not "cruel"" ?

Well for one thing we are not picking up innocent living mice and having to watch them be cornered, attacked and killed all while screaming for its little life and dying a slow painful death. I do realize the food was once alive, but atleast it didnt die such a gruesome death, and was killed instantly by co2 freezing.

Would you rather die instantly.... or be bitten and squeezed to death while you screamed and pleaded for your life?

so i guess my friend taking ball pythons and corn snakes and throwing them alive in with his red tail hawk to rip up is not cruel either ??? :rolleyes:


what about those people in asia that put a cobra in with a mongoose


YouTube - Cobra vs Mongoose


mongoose eat these snakes in the wild so according to u i guess its natural and okay for them to do this as well :rolleyes:

this is someones pet owl being fed a rat snake

Hi,

Just to say that post makes it perfectly clear you have never seen a well organized and planned live feeding.

Please don't judge how most people do things from the horrible videos put on youtube by the worlds greatest dumbasses. :please:


dr del

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wispurs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

How can you tell he is not like other snakes if you have never had another snake before?

Well, I could be wrong but from what everyone says on this forum, they seem to think snakes are incapable of love, and that they do not lile being held, but only tolerate it..... Well my snake seems to LOVE me and WANT to be held by me...

Everyone else seems to think that this is not possible, wich would lead me to believe their snake must not act like this.

"So, how is dead feeding not "cruel"" ?

Well for one thing we are not picking up innocent living mice and having to watch them be cornered, attacked and killed all while screaming for its life and dying a slow painful death. I do realize the food was once alive, but atleast it didnt die such a horrible painful death, and was killed instantly by co2 freezing.

Would you rather die instantly.... or be bitten and squeezed to death while you screamed and pleaded for your life?

---

---

You don't seem to listen at all.
CO2 IS NOT INSTANT.
It actually takes longer for the animal to die in a CO2 chamber than it does during the constriction process.
Also, not all frozen mice and rats are killed with CO2.. some have their necks broken.. Especially the ones you get from Petco/Petsmart and not direct businesses. Just keep that in mind.

Also, you guys are going by your "feelings" and what "seems" to be. And that's nice and all.. but we're going by science and real evidence based on the cranial structure of a reptile and what their brain is capable of understanding.

Hi,

You posted that video while I was writing mine.

Mongeese do not eat cobras. :rolleyes:

As I said - youtube videos are far more likely to show you what not to do than anything else.


dr del

didnt work ill give it another try

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exotica0095

so i guess my friend taking ball pythons and corn snakes and throwing them alive in with his red tail hawk to rip up is not cruel either ??? :rolleyes:


what about those people in asia that put a cobra in with a mongoose.


mongoose eat these snakes in the wild so according to u i guess its natural and okay for them to do this as well :rolleyes:

this is someones pet owl being fed a rat snake

---

You're comparing raptors and venomous reptiles to constrictors.
Not a proper comparison.

And also, compared to what humans do to animals that you eat in your hamburgers every day on a large scale, is nothing compared to that.

what humnans do to the meat they eat is not relevant here we are talking about feeding live prey animals to other animals we keep :rolleyes:


feeding a hawk or an owl a live thrashing snake is the same as feeding a snake a live trashing rat

if u dont agree you are a hypocrite

both are sad and equally disturbing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

You don't seem to listen at all.
CO2 IS NOT INSTANT.
It actually takes longer for the animal to die in a CO2 chamber than it does during the constriction process.
Also, not all frozen mice and rats are killed with CO2.. some have their necks broken.. Especially the ones you get from Petco/Petsmart and not direct businesses. Just keep that in mind.

Also, you guys are going by your "feelings" and what "seems" to be. And that's nice and all.. but we're going by science and real evidence based on the cranial structure of a reptile and what their brain is capable of understanding.

---

Ok 1, i was writing mine when you posted about the co2 and

" some have their necks broken.. Especially the ones you get from Petco/Petsmart. Just keep that in mind."

WTF is wrong with you, why would you even tell me that? You just want to put a sick image of some guy going around to little baby mice and picking them up one by one snapping their little necks like dandelions while the rest just wait for their turn.
you want to upset me because i think its cruel to feed a living animal to a snake in a cage where it has no chance.

You are a mean spirited sick person and i hope your karma meets you very soon!

This remind anyone else of the chick who believed tubs were bad? Stupid trolls.

It's nature! Snakes eat rodents. The end. If you can't deal with it, give the snake to someone who can before you starve it, roll over ontop of it and crush it in your sleep, or lose it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cboocks

This remind anyone else of the chick who believed tubs were bad? Stupid trolls.

It's nature! Snakes eat rodents. The end. If you can't deal with it, give the snake to someone who can before you starve it, roll over ontop of it and crush it in your sleep, or lose it.

---

If you pay attention, He ISNT starving, he is INFACT eating.

Stop being so vindictive just because i dont share YOUR views on MY snake

wow cbrooks thanks for the mature intelligent post looks like you put a lot of thought into it, if you had been paying attention you would of realized our snake is feeding on f/t :rolleyes: Calling other people names here while they are having a friendly debate shouldnt be allowed maybe cbrooks is not old enough to handle this convo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wispurs

Ok 1, i was writing mine when you posted about the co2 and

" some have their necks broken.. Especially the ones you get from Petco/Petsmart. Just keep that in mind."

WTF is wrong with you, why would you even tell me that? You just want to put a sick image of some guy going around to little baby mice and picking them up one by one snapping their little necks like dandelions while the rest just wait for their turn.
you want to upset me because i think its cruel to feed a living animal to a snake in a cage where it has no chance.

You are a mean spirited sick person and i hope your karma meets you very soon!

---

Oh, why, thank you for the personal attacks! They're very sweet. :rolleyes:

Would you rather me not tell you and lie and say, oh you're right, you're right about everything? Is that what you want?

Alright, I'll lie to you.
In the happiness of a rat breeding facility, all the rats go peacefully and painlessly with no understanding what is happening to them.

Also, I rarely see any rats "thrash" when they are constricted. Usually I see a twitch and kick at the most.
But please, I'm not going to let some of my snakes die who refuse f/t just because you think it's cruel to feed that to them. Sorry! My snake gets top priority!

And hey, just for your information, I have 22 snakes, and feed TWO of them live.
Just out of convenience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

Oh, why, thank you for the personal attacks! They're very sweet. :rolleyes:

Would you rather me not tell you and lie and say, oh you're right, you're right about everything? Is that what you want?

Alright, I'll lie to you.
In the happiness of a rat breeding facility, all the rats go peacefully and painlessly with no understanding what is happening to them.

Also, I rarely see any rats "thrash" when they are constricted. Usually I see a twitch and kick at the most.
But please, I'm not going to let some of my snakes die who refuse f/t just because you think it's cruel to feed that to them. Sorry! My snake gets top priority!

And hey, just for your information, I have 22 snakes, and feed TWO of them live.
Just out of convenience.

---

why do you want to fight with me? everyone here has been attacking me and trying to make it seem like im a bad person because i have my own way of dealing with my snake, he does seem to like the way i deal with him, so whats the problem?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wispurs

why do you want to fight with me?

---

You attacked me. So I have no intention of fighting you. You made the first strike.

I'm telling you the way things are, and if you don't like it, I don't know what to tell you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wispurs

why do you want to fight with me? everyone here has been attacking me and trying to make it seem like im a bad person because i have my own way of dealing with my snake, he does seem to like the way i deal with him, so whats the problem?

---

We're not trying to attack you. We are trying to give you information based on knowledge and fact and you precede to shove it in our faces and deny it.

Go ask a herpetologist if snakes feel "love". They've been learning about reptiles for decades, and they'll probably laugh at you. Because there is substantial evidence that shows their range of available "feelings".

There's nothing wrong with your current set-up, besides the sleeping thing, which is just outright dangerous. It's your mindset and accusations against people who feed live that upsets us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wispurs

you want to upset me because i think its cruel to feed a living animal to a snake in a cage where it has no chance.

You are a mean spirited sick person and i hope your karma meets you very soon!

---

im sorry to bring this pic back up but this poor snake had to be put to sleep by a member on here because some numpty left a poor inoccent mouse that would have no chance in its tank unsupervised
anyone that live feeds properly makes sure its as humane as possable for both snake and rodent
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...e/100_4400.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by punkoldschool

im sorry to bring this pic back up but this poor snake had to be put to sleep by a member on here because some numpty left a poor inoccent mouse that would have no chance in its tank unsupervised
anyone that live feeds properly makes sure its as humane as possable for both snake and rodent

---

There is a difference between feeding live responsibly and feeding live like an irresponsible owner.
Leaving a live rodent in a cage with a snake for any period of unsupervised time is dangerous. Whoever did that did not know what they were doing.

None of us feed irresponsibly like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

We're not trying to attack you. We are trying to give you information based on knowledge and fact and you precede to shove it in our faces and deny it.

Go ask a herpetologist if snakes feel "love". They've been learning about reptiles for decades, and they'll probably laugh at you. Because there is substantial evidence that shows their range of available "feelings".

There's nothing, wrong with your current set-up, besides the sleeping thing, which is just outright dangerous. It's your mindset and accusations against people who feed live that upsets us.

---

I dont care what any herpetologist says. I dont care what anyone says, im going by how MY snake acts. not by how some snake kept by someone else with a narrow minded view of how snakes do or dont feel, thinks. you are NOT a snake and probably just havnt had an affectionate snake who CHOOSES to sit with you and show an interest in being held.

Sorry if you cant comprehend that my snake seems to like these things. its not my fault that he WANTS to be held and you cant understand nor explain it.

Why does everyone think CO2 is so harmless? Have you ever been deprived of oxygen long enough to "fall asleep?" It's kinda horrible.

i said responsably didnt i? im just trying to let this girl know that its not something to be taken lightly and responsable owners make it humane for the snake and the rat because it is dangerous and harms the snake if done wrong

lol punkolschool niether of us are feeding live animals i think ur confused

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by punkoldschool

i said responsably didnt i? im just trying to let this girl know that its not something to be taken lightly and responsable owners make it humane for the snake and the rat because it is dangerous and harms the snake if done wrong

---

oh yeah, its not mean at all, provided the rat is too little to fend for itself.

whatever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exotica0095

lol punkolschool niether of us are feeding live animals..

---

lol i know your not it just the cruel comment that got to me

I'm sorry, but your snake really doesn't love you. If it's trying to get out of its cage, that doesn't mean it wants to be held--it means something is wrong with its cage, and you should adjust things until the snake is calm and happy there.

Snakes are not capable of love. It doesn't matter what it SEEMS to be doing--the capability IS NOT there. You are mistaking the snake's behavior for something it is not, because it SEEMS to be something else to you--you're looking at it through mammalian eyes, basically. To really make your snake happy, you need to understand snakes. I recommend doing a lot of reading and research.

The snake may be really used to handling, so that handling doesn't distress it much, but that shouldn't be mistaken for enjoying handling. A snake will go for what is familiar and secure over what is strange and exposed.

As for rodents--you should be aware that a rodent grabbed by a snake screams because it was startled (I know this, because I breed rodents for my snakes, and I have startled them before--same sound)--after that, it's completely unconscious in less than 10 seconds (in the vast majority of cases). This isn't even really enough time for it to feel pain from the snake's teeth. Any movement after that point is 'agonal'--unconscious spasms as the animal dies.

CO2 causes the animals to become groggy and then fall over and pass out, and then die of suffocation. This takes a few minutes. This is used as a euthanasia method because it's very hands-off and clean for the humans, and reasonably humane for the rodents--not because it is the most humane method for killing rodents.
Breaking the neck or a sharp blow to the head is probably more humane for the rodents, as it causes instant or near-instant death with no room for anxiety beforehand.

So, live feeding is really not horribly inhumane, and CO2 is really not horribly humane--just the way things are.

What is wrong with just saying that YOU love your snake and YOU love handling it? Why does the snake need to reciprocate? Why does the snake need to be "different"? What is wrong with him just being like any other snake?

I know we all want to think that our pets (and children for that matter) are different from the majority but it is a simple fact that they really aren't that different. Especially when it comes to emotional capacity.

There is nothing wrong with loving your animal and loving handling it. But because these animals lack a social structure, they will not reciprocate your feelings.

This is something that is very common with human thought, anthropomorphizing.

hahahahahahahaha this thread is so greeat i actually took the time to read the entire thing.:rofl: get a haagen daz and chill out, woman lol.
im new to bp's too but i was a little animal nerd back in the day so i know some basic things about reptiles in general. humans and mammals do things to make themselves happy and show affection and all that. they live. reptiles and amphibians on the other hand dont 'live', they survive. they dont just do things for the hell of it like we do, they do whatever they do to keep themselves alive. is that such a hard concept? they dont eat cause they wanna sit down and have dinner convos with u, they just want their food so they can keep surviving and once they take it, they want u to leave them the hell alone. a dog will come to u and want u to play with them and everything. when u open a snakes cage when they seem to want out, they dont come to ur hand and say hi. they just want out. most of the time when u put the snake back in the tank, they try to get back out from the side of the tank but they dont move toward u, they move away from u and the tank because he gets stressed from both. when they are cold and u hold them and they stay, they dont really wanna hang out with u, they simply need to increase their body temperature to ensure their survival. once hes warm enough i can just about guarantee that he'll move away from u.
as a matter of fact, heres a little test u can do: let the snake loose in your backyard and see if ever see him again. if he loves u he should come back right? lol (dont actually do it)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wispurs

I dont care what any herpetologist says. I dont care what anyone says, im going by how MY snake acts. not by how some snake kept by someone else with a narrow minded view of how snakes do or dont feel, thinks. you are NOT a snake and probably just havnt had an affectionate snake who CHOOSES to sit with you and show an interest in being held.

Sorry if you cant comprehend that my snake seems to like these things. its not my fault that he WANTS to be held and you cant understand nor explain it.

---

This is your first snake correct? Why come to take advice if you're just going to throw it back in the face of the person who gave it to you, and say that you're right, and everyone else is wrong?

Here's the truth, you don't know squat about what your snake is "feeling" because they do not have emotions, and it is therefore impossible for you to know what the snake "feels." Also being able to communicate mentally with snakes is impossible, so that's out too.

Snakes have NEEDS, not wants or desires, NEEDS. They need heat to digest and thermoregulate, they need shelter to feel secure, they need water and humidity to stay hydrated, and they need food to survive. All these things are necessary for their survival, your love and attention is not. They tolerate handling and other things by humans because they know that they are out-matched size-wise, and would not win in a fight, and as a plus, humans are warm to sit on. Who loves and pays attention to snakes, or any other creature for that matter, out in the wild? NO ONE.

I know that you will toss this information out the window along with all the other information that people have given you so far in an attempt to help you with your new snake, but at least I gave it a go.

nice topic

another thing that makes bb unlike other snakes is the fact right after he eats he willl let u pet his head its like hes saying "thank you for feeding me" most snakes would strike you if u did that after they eat but not BB (short for beebee)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wispurs

oh yeah, its not mean at all, provided the rat is too little to fend for itself.

whatever.

---

P.S. That picture of the snake with skin missing? That was done by a mouse or a rat. Too little to fend for themselves, right! If the snake isn't hungry, the mouse/rat has plenty of opportunity to defend itself and attack the snake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luckycharm318

P.S. That picture of the snake with skin missing? That was done by a mouse or a rat. Too little to fend for themselves, right! If the snake isn't hungry, the mouse/rat has plenty of opportunity to defend itself and attack the snake.

---

well then, maybe of for the safety both, it is INHUMANE to feed live animals to snakes and this is a perfect example of why. you call it the circle of life, i call it karma.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wispurs

well then, maybe of for the safety both, it is INHUMANE to feed live animals to snakes and this is a perfect example of why. you call it the circle of life, i call it karma.

---

Or, you could just watch to make sure the snake actually eats the mouse/rat. Which is what some people have to do in order to keep their beloved little snakies alive! :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luckycharm318

Or, you could just watch to make sure the snake actually eats the mouse/rat. Which is what some people have to do in order to keep their beloved little snakies alive! :rolleyes:

---

I would never ever ever watch such a thing. If i wanted to see such a disgusting display, I would fight pit bulls.

lucky charm i totally disagree with you! I guess wispurs is 100% right!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wispurs

I would never ever ever watch such a thing. If i wanted to see such a disgusting display, I would fight pit bulls.

---

I hope your snake continues to eat f/t then.

i think u should trade ur snake for a cute fuzzy little bunny rabbit lol just sayin

its not an example of why its an example that they can defend themselfs and will.
live feeding is always done humanly by responsable owners and in some cases is needed if a snake wont take prekilled or f/t its not cruel its just something that has to be done

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rizl0p

lucky charm i totally disagree with you! I guess wispurs is 100% right!

---

Darn, I must be wrong! Let me go back and do some more reading about how you should love and cherish your snake...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryu

i think u should trade ur snake for a cute fuzzy little bunny rabbit lol just sayin

---

Please go get yourself a puppy, or a kitty, or a bunny, or some other fuzzy mammal that is capable of wanting attention from a human so that your loving nature is not wasted on a cold-blooded, uncaring, reptile.

yes do that before you spread some wrong infos on this thread.. Thanks

:rofl: