Do snakes feel emotions and/or love?

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

On the outside looking in we as humans need to associate one of our rationals or emotions to a purely instinctual response. Humans feel the need to explain things, they cannot just accept them as they are. My two cents...

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Hey now, I've floated past a number of people over the years who were completely at ease.

They're rare, but they're out there.

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

I think a big problem when it comes to this debate is the fact that humans do not readily rely on their instincts anymore. We have become rational creatures with a brain that processes and takes into account many different pieces of information before coming to a decision. I firmly believe that snakes are instinctual creatures.

Instincts are an involuntary response to a stimuli. The smell of a rodent triggers the instinctual feed response. A large heat signature and unknown scent triggers a defensive instinctual response, hissing and/or balling up.

On the outside looking in we as humans need to associate one of our rationals or emotions to a purely instinctual response. Humans feel the need to explain things, they cannot just accept them as they are. My two cents...

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although i do agree with what you said. the association of an unknown to know sent would require some sort of memory based on them. an african rat smells different than a north American one im sure and thus sparks my argument :)

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

although i do agree with what you said. the association of an unknown to know sent would require some sort of memory based on them. an african rat smells different than a north American one im sure and thus sparks my argument :)

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But, are they different enough to an animal who smells so much better than we, to make a difference?

If one is instinct, the af. rat, then what makes ol rattis domesticatis so tasty to some ball pythons? Either they're too stupid to know the difference, don't care, prefer them or something I've not thought up as yet.

My original thought was that there may not be siginfigant difference in the smell of types of rats for certain snakes. Why?

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

although i do agree with what you said. the association of an unknown to know sent would require some sort of memory based on them. an african rat smells different than a north American one im sure and thus sparks my argument :)

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To the same effect you're assuming or rationalizing that ASF and rats smell different to your snake...but do you KNOW that? We know that they show preference to some items over others but we don't know why. It is their instincts that tell them "this is food, eat it". What about snakes that used to eat rats but now will only feed on ASF, do they not remember that rats were ok to eat?

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

To the same effect you're assuming or rationalizing that ASF and rats smell different to your snake...but do you KNOW that? We know that they show preference to some items over others but we don't know why. It is their instincts that tell them "this is food, eat it". What about snakes that used to eat rats but now will only feed on ASF, do they not remember that rats were ok to eat?

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this is why i dont claim to be right, we just dont know

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Originally Posted by wilomn

But, are they different enough to an animal who smells so much better than we, to make a difference?

If one is instinct, the af. rat, then what makes ol rattis domesticatis so tasty to some ball pythons? Either they're too stupid to know the difference, don't care, prefer them or something I've not thought up as yet.

My original thought was that there may not be siginfigant difference in the smell of types of rats for certain snakes. Why?

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this could be entirely true. to bad none of us have the research or credentials to claim one way or another 100% :) we all have to agree to disagree some times :P

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

this could be entirely true. to bad none of us have the research or credentials to claim one way or another 100% :) we all have to agree to disagree some times :P

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Agreed :)

Scientific evidence (in the form of brain structure and activity studies) suggests that reptiles DO have emotions, but they do not have complex emotions like love. The reason for this is very simple. The purpose of love is to make a person feel good when they are with the person they love--that makes them more likely to stay with that person. Most reptiles aren't social, so why would they have an emotion that makes them want to be with someone?

They certainly feel emotions like fear, anger, unhappiness, curiousity, and happiness/satisfaction. Quite apart from brain studies, we can see evidence of these emotions simply by watching the animals.
For example, a snake's fear response may lead it to be defensive. Since it is an emotional being, and not an automaton, it will not instantly calm down when the threat is removed--it will remain agitated for a while. Its emotions have been heightened, and it's upset.
This is part of the reason why some skittish snakes refuse to eat for a whole day after they've been handled.
Emotions are goads that lead to behavior--they provide the stick and carrot for different types of behaviors. Angry, a lizard will puff up, its colors will brighten, and it will bob its head, and then attack a rival. Frightened, a snake will coil up defensively, or flee. We know our animals all have individual personalities, and part of their personality involves their individual emotional responses.

If you handle an insect, and scare the bejeesus out of it, the moment the threat is gone, and the chemicals leave its system, it's ready to eat and behave normally again. Insects don't have emotions.

Fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals all DO have emotions.
(Squid and octopi also have emotions, and broadcast them colorfully--cephalopods are possibly the only inverts that do have them).

Only birds and mammals show obvious signs of what we would call 'higher emotions'--love and hate are probably the most evident of those.

In reality, this is not a philosophical question at all--it's a scientific question, and it's one that has already been answered through experimentation and study.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...TRY=1&SRETRY=0

Another, more detailed link that makes mention of reptilian brains and emotions.
http://www.neurotransmitter.net/reptilebrain.html

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...TRY=1&SRETRY=0

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Can you paste the contents of this link into the thread? It will not let you view without logging in...

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

instinct wouldn't be something that would cause a food item imprint. Eat or die is an instinct. they can imprint on things that do not even exist in there natural habitat. so in this case i do not agree :)

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Yes, but there is also conditional learning.... ;)

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

if this were entirely true. then the BP would be unable to imprint on a food item. as it would not remember it.

and we all know that they can and will imprint on a particular prey item. Would require some form of memory one would think.

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Are we now arguing if snakes have memory? :rolleyes: