Crazy, quail vs rat

i made sure i had a bacon egg and cheese for breakfest today....just because of this post....also WHOOOO CARES?????????????? you give ur birds A, he gives them B....A&B can both work, A&B can both fail....anything else?

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Originally Posted by nybp

i made sure i had a bacon egg and cheese for breakfest today....just because of this post....also WHOOOO CARES?????????????? you give ur birds A, he gives them B....A&B can both work, A&B can both fail....anything else?

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My point exactly, thank you. :) Not everyone has to do it exactly the same way, as long as nothing is sacrificed. Bacon, egg and cheese does sound delicious, too bad I'm getting chicken instead.

Anyways, is there such a thing as too much protein or too little fat for snakes? I mean, I'm sure there is, but, is it likely to happen when feeding whole prey?

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

I got to ague against the quail for BPs... Ball Pythons are naturally rodent eating animals, they consume small mammals, not birds. While they can consume the bird I, personally, find an ethical flaw in changing an animal's natural diet.

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erm? really?


OH that's right! I forgot there were no birds in Africa... silly me. So much for all those ground nesting species that I used to think lived on the plains. Thanks for setting me straight.

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Originally Posted by Bettacreek

But do we really know if they won't eat birds in the wild? They may predominantly eat rodents, but I don't think we can rule out that birds just may be on the menu. Other than personal ethics on wild diets vs "artificial" diet, are there any other reasons?

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Except for the fact that I specifically stated that it was I who saw the ethical problem with it, and not you or him. I was stating my own opinion, not presenting a law.

God you people are thick.

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

Except for the fact that I specifically stated that it was I who saw the ethical problem with it, and not you or him. I was stating my own opinion, not presenting a law.

God you people are thick.

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I'm sorry, but your domesticated/fancy rats (better known as Rattus norvegicus or the Norway or Brown Rat) are not the "natural" diet.

And maybe I do need to lose a little weight... don't judge me. Ha, anyway, yeah, don't hurt yourself falling off that horse.

[ps. As a Bp.net Veteran, I doubt that I can be considered a 'troll']

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Originally Posted by qiksilver

I'm sorry, but your domesticated/fancy rats (better known as Rattus norvegicus or the Norway or Brown Rat) are not the "natural" diet.

And maybe I do need to lose a little weight... don't judge me. Ha, anyway, yeah, don't hurt yourself falling off that horse.

[ps. As a Bp.net Veteran, I doubt that I can be considered a 'troll']

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Many people feed ASF's, Which are in fact found in Africa. Also, no one ever called you a troll?

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

Many people feed ASF's, Which are in fact found in Africa. Also, no one ever called you a troll?

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That's a totally reasonable post.

I honestly just made an assumption based on the number of animals kept and the arrogance and 'condemnation of ethics' of the post that they didn't do ASF's, because it wouldn't make sense to breed them for a small number of animals, unless they're near a breeder.

The troll thing is no matter, it means nothing to me, I just don't want to have private correspondence with this person so I stated it here.

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

Except for the fact that I specifically stated that it was I who saw the ethical problem with it, and not you or him. I was stating my own opinion, not presenting a law.

God you people are thick.

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You don't have to be rude about it. I wasn't being rude to you. I was asking if there were any reasons other than personal ethics for not feeding quail.

It seems that really, the only thing that holds most back is that it's "not natural", but really, as Qiksilver said, most are feeding Norvegicus, which aren't the natural prey anyways, so if you're going to feed these rats instead of the real natural prey, then what's the difference? I'm sure a ball will take a ground dwelling bird in the wilds of Africa (or any bird, given the chance) just as easily as they would take a rat.
I'm not looking for personal ethics or opinions on the matter, because, well, everyone has one, but that doesn't make it "right". People could argue all day and night about what they think is right, but I want to get the solid facts and figure out if it would actually cause any type of harm to feed ball pythons quail, which, I haven't found any proof of yet. On the ethics side, there are some reasons not to, imprinting on quail and later selling the balls may cause problems for another owner, or starting balls out on quail and selling could cause problems, but that's not my concern. First, I plan to keep my adults, second, any babies would be started on rodents simply for "ease of use" for others, and, if for some reason I ever sold the adults that were imprinted on quail, I would sell them and make sure that any potential new owners knew full well that they were on quail and may never come off of them.
But, like I said, this isn't about personal ethics, it's about whether or not quail can be fed to snakes without causing any harm, and if there are any reasons (other than personal ethics) to not feed them. Who knew people would get so damned touchy over something as silly as "unnatural" diets (but still healthy, apparantly, as nobody can seem to give any real reason to not feed them).

I was not getting the impression that the ethics part had anything to do with what you feed, but rather was directly related to the manner in which you would be caring for your feeder/breeders.

Bruce

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Originally Posted by Bettacreek

But do we really know if they won't eat birds in the wild? They may predominantly eat rodents, but I don't think we can rule out that birds just may be on the menu. Other than personal ethics on wild diets vs "artificial" diet, are there any other reasons?

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Well, ball pythons don't have wings, or climb trees, so I REALLY doubt they feed on birds.

I personally would never by a snake from you if I found out you where feeding quail to them. Bird carry quite a few nasty things, even in captivity, also most of the world feeds rodents to there snakes, and don't want to spend the extra time switching snakes over to rodents after quail.

Rats are much easier, and much more time/space saving, and even more economical than quail to raise. If you want to buy a high quality poultry feed you will pay a pretty penny per 50lb bag, when you can pay 23 bucks for a bag of high quality rodent diet.

I wouldn't be worried about the natural part of it. We keep these snakes in modified shelving units, in tubs, with papertowels a ceramic bowl, and a flower pot for a hide...LOL.